S2Ep4: “Powerlifting as the vehicle for greatness” with Matthew Bartholomew

Matt is a Balance HP OG. Although most would view Matt as powerlifting coach and athlete, there is so much more to this humble and well spoken individual. He has experienced highs and lows in training and competition, but it's what happens off the competition floor that really defines who Matt is.

Join us as we delve into Matt's journey through injury, recovery, and training his way toward success.

@_mattbartholomew

Transcript

Nick Papastamatis  0:29  
Oh wow so um, so ladies and gentlemen, today well we've got The Balance E xperience podcast and we're bringing to you today a very, very special guest but before we introduce this wonderful guest... How are you Jaco?

Jac Simmonds  0:46  
I'm doing pretty good, Nicko. We've Uh, yeah, I mean, it's been a it's been an interesting little time lately. I think we mentioned on the last podcast, I got a baby on the way so that's the main thing happened in my life. So yeah, just preparing for fatherhood now. Which is, which is really cool and a little bit scary. And, yeah, I mean, we've got we've got a couple months now into until a baby girl comes.

Nick Papastamatis  1:07  
What type of father, you're gonna be you reckon? Describe yourself three words, adjectives...lets go.

Jac Simmonds  1:12  
I'm gonna be there's gonna be plenty of dad jokes, they're gonna be pretty lame. There's gonna be, you know, a bit of golf here and there. That's just me. Nah look, I'm really looking forward to fatherhood to be honest, like. Just like a shift in priorities and, you know, looking after my daughter. So...

Nick Papastamatis  1:33  
Mate I asked for three adjectives...

Jac Simmonds  1:35  
Alright let's go, let's go. I'm not...whatever I say your just going to laugh at anyway.

Nick Papastamatis  1:42  
I want to hear it... the listeners want to hear it.

Jac Simmonds  1:44  
The main thing I always think about with my daughter is I'm going to be a protective as hell, Father, and I just, I just can't imagine anything else. Wow. Yeah. It's a crazy feeling. But yeah, I'm looking forward to that a bit. Yeah, that's the main thing in my life at the moment. Thanks. How have you been?

Nick Papastamatis  2:03  
Mate I have been good. I, this. This week that we're recording this I actually just finished an exam yesterday. So I'm feeling like I'm feeling like a well done sirloin. Yes. Burnt. Yes. Cooked. And so, yeah, that's been laid out to rest overnight. Yes. That's how I am today. But apart from that, I am so pumped to talk to our very first will our very well this amazing guest that we have here today. And his name is Matt Bartholomew. Welcome Matty. 

Matthew Bartholomew  2:37  
 Hello, guys. Pleasure to be here, boys. Thank you. 

Nick Papastamatis  2:40  
Yeah, great to have you. And I feel like this has been a very long awaited conversation. Hmm, for sure.

Matthew Bartholomew  2:48  
Coincidentally, I had an exam last night as well. 

Nick Papastamatis  2:50  
Did you? What did you..What are you studying? 

Matthew Bartholomew  2:52  
It was a prescript course... Jordan Shallows The Muscle Doc on Instagram. Really Cool. Course.

Nick Papastamatis  2:57  
Beast.

Jac Simmonds  2:58  
Yeah, what's it called the course?

Matthew Bartholomew  3:00  
Prescript... it essentially has a couple of levels. Coaches and practitioners tend to take part, it's kind of in between. So there's a bunch of stuff in there that I'm sure I'll be able to review and learn more again, there was a tonne of stuff that I picked up that fill in little gaps in knowledge. So cool course.

Nick Papastamatis  3:16  
Do you feel like it was it sort of it was an applicable from a rehab point of view? Or was it like very much strength and conditioning? How...physiology?

Matthew Bartholomew  3:25  
There was certainly discussions that we had, within the lectures that Jordan was applying to rehab settings because he knew who he was talking to. Yeah. And then there was also these extra components, where there were labs like meetups, where further discussions were had. And those were split into coach and practitioner scenarios, rabbit holes were able to be gone down, so to speak.

Nick Papastamatis  3:47  
Yeah. 

Matthew Bartholomew  3:48  
So yeah, I mean, it applies, right, because, like, a massive part of it was going from, you know, trying to differentiate between, like this rehab idea and like just exercising properly to essentially achieve those objectives of, you know, maybe shoulder function within a strength training program. Yeah. So it was just, it was very eye opening for me to sort of learn a few things down that lens. And also, it filled a lot of gaps for me from hypertrophy standpoint, because obviously being more of a strength coach, yeah, so yeah, heaps cool stuff.

Jac Simmonds  4:16  
Nice. Why don't we, uh, I guess let's let's kick it off with a little bit of an intro for you Matty. I think most people who, I guess even follow us have probably seen you on our socials a little bit here and there. And, you know, people within the powerlifting world at least in Australia and Sydney, you know, probably know your name. But just for those who who don't know, your, you know, haven't heard your name before. Yeah. If you could give us a little rundown about, I guess, who you are and what you do and yeah. 

Matthew Bartholomew  4:45  
Absolutely. So I guess I can start by telling a little bit of a story of since leaving school, what I've been up to, and where that's led me to, so I started PT'ing straight out of school. The little bit of study in various areas. but ended up falling into the coaching world into the PT world. And from various other sporting backgrounds that will that will talk about I fell into into powerlifting, about four years ago, four and a bit years ago. And in that time as well, the last four or five years, I've been almost exclusively coaching power lifters. I used to work at Macquarie University Sports Center, and then kind of narrowed down and started working at athletes authority. And you know, like off the back of that name, you can see that I'm starting to work more with athletes more with that sort of mentality. And now I work at Paragon strength and performance, like I said, pretty much exclusively with power lifters. Yep. And yeah, I've been competing on the national and international platform for a few years now, too. So after about a year in the sport, I was able to break into that national platform sort of category. And I've been lucky enough to go to Singapore, Hong Kong, and compete internationally as well. And with that green and gold. So as a power lifter, I've come a long way. I've had some really cool people in my corner. But I'm only just getting started.

Jac Simmonds  6:03  
Yeah, yeah. Wow, it's unreal. So good it's cool story. Yeah, and we're gonna deep dive into it.

Matthew Bartholomew  6:09  
Kind of like the wide lens. And we'll zoom in on that. 

Nick Papastamatis  6:12  
I suppose it's, it's always it's always wonderful to see that, you know, I see so many athletes were often true athletes aren't just in one sport, they can transition really well, because they either have very good skill acquisition, they can learn movements very quickly, they can adapt their strength and skill really well and quickly, and then some...

Matthew Bartholomew  6:37  
Some application there, you know, for sure.

Nick Papastamatis  6:39  
So like, when you when you because you didn't start off with powerlifting, you obviously

Matthew Bartholomew  6:43  
I started off in the weights room training to get bigger and stronger to play rugby, you know, and essentially, you know, I was lucky enough to be at a school I was at Kings where strength and conditioning and sports like rugby were really highly valued as a part of that school experience. And like, we had some guidance with what I know now, you know, that maybe could have been a little bit better, but I..

Nick Papastamatis  7:06  
Hold it, hold it. 

Matthew Bartholomew  7:08  
That's where I'm at.

Jac Simmonds  7:08  
Like, you're probably pretty lucky as well with kings like I know, their gym setup is unreal. So you're exposed unreal, you're exposed to a really good gym early on as well. Yeah,

Matthew Bartholomew  7:18  
I just think that since I was in school, the strength and conditioning world has progressed so much so it isn't even a dig. It's more than this, like, Oh my goodness, I wish I knew what I know now that actually I'd actually really love to get back there as a coach and be that guy...

Jac Simmonds  7:33  
Rewind yeah.

Matthew Bartholomew  7:34  
and, and, and create a better platform than what I hadn't happened to have. Because of where knowledge and literature and whatever was at that point right?

Nick Papastamatis  7:43  
Yeah, fully it is it has it has evolved immensely. Hmm.

Matthew Bartholomew  7:47  
Like the strength and conditioning like the mainstream strength and conditioning world and like how Gen, how Gen Pop train and how coaches trained people has advanced a massive amount in our time in the history 100% I came into the industry as a PT It was like a three fold bang, if you go cool, like just do some curls and squat and like try to do something right. Yeah. And that was kind of like cool. That's $100 an hour. Like what Yeah, whereas now it's like you've really got to know some stuff. Yeah. And people know what knowing stuff looks like. Yeah, and so there's so much out there people are people are accessing this information. And more is asked of the coach or the PT

Jac Simmonds  8:21  
Which is a good thing. 

Matthew Bartholomew  8:22  
Absolutely, accountability. 

Nick Papastamatis  8:24  
I think the PT the PTS of the world have probably one of the most important jobs. Yeah, and and if you don't, if you're not a generalist, as a PT, if you don't understand a very good, but limited level of understanding across broad domains, you are literally leaving your clients open to risk, 100%.

Jac Simmonds  8:47  
I got my I mean, when I did the I did my cert three, four in 2010 or something. It was literally four weeks of back to back I paid five grand or something and then it was all right on your way. I knew nothing. Well, thankfully, I knew a little bit from my background and training but like it was very, very limited. And I can only imagine how undercooked some people come out of that course. You know, like yeah,

Matthew Bartholomew  9:06  
I heard some stat like in Australia 10,000 PTs enter the industry as well and 10,000 exit the industry.

Jac Simmonds  9:16  
So it balances out.

Nick Papastamatis  9:20  
That's more than physios in Australia.

Jac Simmonds  9:21  
Physio is like 1200 a year or something 1300 a year.

Nick Papastamatis  9:26  
That's how many there are in Australia. That's nuts.

Matthew Bartholomew  9:29  
I don't know how accurate that stat is. It's a huge amount. And what that really tells us is it's incredibly easy access. So you got to go into a full week course you don't like that to get there. So if you've got the money, you're good, and you're now have access to training humans, which is like wow, okay, we've got a lot of power here. And then people are realizing Actually, I don't really care as much as I thought about this thing that was really easy to access and out.

Jac Simmonds  9:51  
Yeah, it's quite hard. Yeah, quite cut throat. Right.

Nick Papastamatis  9:53  
Yes, definitely. Yes. Well, I mean, I suppose that and we digress because really what what we want to go back to if we can, is talk about like, some of the best athletes aren't just good at a sport, they're able to transition from, like you said the weight room for rugby. How much do you feel like rugby? Because I presume you you that you know you don't sort of get to play rugby at Kings, if you're mediocre, you've got to be pretty good as a schoolboy. And how do you go? Like, do you feel like that background actually helps push you into into sort of being better than most at powerlifting? Or do you feel like that's not a given? 

Matthew Bartholomew  10:33  
Yeah, look, I think like, you know, when you when you discuss rugby at Kings, like there are many grades like anyone can play, of course, sure. But I played in the second grade, and then I played first grade colts at Eastwood, and then I played New South Wales level sevens. So I was pretty good. I wasn't ever really looking higher than that I didn't really have that same passion that I'm not developed for powerlifting not but had a passion for the the camaraderie of rugby, the camaraderie of sports, like rowing, that I also did kings. And the funny thing was when I transitioned on to powerlifting, it was a realization that I actually, I love the lifting weights component and my rugby training so much more than like rugby in itself. Yeah. But to go back to the idea of like, did like essentially did rugby, maybe equip me for powerlifting success? Or did sport in school the way we did things in school equip me, I would say absolutely, yes. And that's paired with like the way I was raised. So you know, what my parents have done for me and the things they've instilled in me. And then those things have been complemented by a pretty cutthroat methodical process of training and earning return, right? And being graded and earning a certain grade in the divisions of rugby. And some of the rigorous sessions we were put through that kind of long term development. I think, for me, as a mentality, I turned into someone and I think early on naturally from again, how I was raised. I've always craved that. Seeking that I guess, that zone above normal zone above normal of effort, that zone above normal of what's there. And so that was definitely fostered in the environment of being in that environment of rowing back in school, right. And that certainly pays through the powerlifting. But funnily enough, if I just quickly touch on, that I've spoken a lot about how this can actually be a weakness in powerlifting. In the sense that I know how to, and I've learned how to push myself very, very, very, very hard in sports, where that's a really positive thing. So if you look at rowing, for example, pushing through pain, and pushing mental barriers, when you're in the boat, and your skin's ripping, and the body's full of lactic acid, that's a really positive thing. Yeah. But I've literally walked myself into compartment syndrome in training. Yeah, as a power lifter, because I didn't know when to scale back as a powerlifter. powerlifting is a much more calculated training methodology. It sure is. So I'm taking this like, supposed strength, which is certainly a strength, but I've had to learn how to type it to make it a real strength. Does that make sense?

Jac Simmonds  13:04  
Yes, he does. Yeah, certainly does. Yeah, like 100%. Like, it's like a maturity, and especially in team sport, where you've got other people around you, who were who were working at that same capacity and pushing you to work at that level? Yeah, you're right. Like, it just doesn't carry over to powerlifting. As much as it does other team sports. Was there an element of going from, you know, majority team sports to a sport, which is, you know, relatively solo and singular? Was that a big transition for you to make? Or did you find that pretty easy?

Matthew Bartholomew  13:33  
I found that pretty easy. I always really enjoyed team training and playing, you know, on the weekends. But really, a lot of my passion for training is really intrinsic. So like little things like when I was younger, when I say younger I mean in school, weird things like, I remember this habit that I had, that if it was raining, I would go outside and do some kind of exercise, like skipping, or something like that. Because I really enjoyed training when I knew others weren't, it's a weird mentality. But essentially, a lot of it is intrinsically driven. And so that which lives in me and has always has been able to be highlighted and to grow in powerlifting. So if anything, powerlifting has been way more suitable for the for the mindset that has always existed in me. Yeah. You know, like, love team sports. I've been around the boys, you know, playing playing on the weekends. But really, if it came to doing extras and kind of doing more work, I was there.

Jac Simmonds  14:26  
Yes. You know, and I think for you, like knowing you as well, and correct me if I'm wrong, but where your efforts are also determined by other people, as well as in like, there's the collective team. I don't know if that was anything that played into it as well. Moving into a solo sport.

Matthew Bartholomew  14:40  
Well, yeah, that's a thing. You hit the nail on the head when it comes to shaping up on the weekends against another team. If seven of the 15 on the field playing poorly, yeah, that brings average down a huge amount. Yeah. And you could be giving all the effort you like and be so committed to your training and your team loses championship and It's like very hard to swallow in some ways. And I've really enjoyed the accountability and the responsibility of being like, hold on a second. All the inputs have really are mine. Yeah. When it comes to getting sleep, nailing my nutrition, yes, working with people who can help me to do those things and guide me in those facets. But hey, when it comes down to it, the execution, it's really me. And then when it comes to that end result... You've got that pure accountability.

Jac Simmonds  15:26  
Yes, yeah. Yeah,

Nick Papastamatis  15:28  
Definitely doing things that others won't, so that you can achieve things that others can't, essentially.

Matthew Bartholomew  15:37  
Yes, that's the mindset, you know, and I think like that, surely a mindset that lives within most elite athletes, like I, like, I wish so badly that powerlifting was in the Olympics, because so many so many times that it comes to doing something, something difficult that so easy to say, I really can't be bothered doing this, you know, in maybe a more aggressive way than that. Yeah. In those moments, I honestly say to myself, often, what would an Olympian do in these moments? Yeah. Olympians train and do these things every day for four years minimum? Yeah, often three cycles of that, to get their success.

Jac Simmonds  16:13  
Yes.

Matthew Bartholomew  16:14  
And that's like, a mindset that I admire so much. Yeah, you know, and I try to as much as I can, even though like, my job is not my sport. I actually coach in powerlifting. But like, that's not me. Doing the little things that make sense. Yeah. And balancing isn't funded. And same with all sports and whatnot. So I can't do that. But I try as much as I can to bring that mentality because I admire it so much. 

Nick Papastamatis  16:37  
That is interesting. And it sounds like as, as you sort of, like, we've known you for several years now. And and something that's sort of just dawned on me just listening to you right now. It's, it's really not, I mean, yet powerlifting. You know, I can tell you fallen in love with it. And there is that intrinsic desire, but I suppose my question here is, is that intrinsic desire power lifting? Or is that intrinsic desire to play this game of being able to do the make the right move at the right time? And doesn't necessarily need to be powerlifting? You can just do that across the board with anything really?

Matthew Bartholomew  17:12  
I know what you mean. And essentially, powerlifting is just a vehicle. Yeah, yeah. And it's a vehicle that I'm falling in love with, And I really am really enjoying them. I'll be it for that for the end game. Yeah. Or it could be some other vehicle in five years. Yeah. And that's, I'm totally open to that. 

Nick Papastamatis  17:26  
Most definitely. I see people like there is a big scale of motivation. So motivation is, you know, scales from apathy to then having several components of external motivation. And then you have the intrinsic motivation. That intrinsic motivation is what drives behavior just organically. And I think what I don't see from you is any any external reason for you to train I, I can't let my coach down. I can't do i can't i have to do this because I, you know, someone that people that need a PT session, to keep them accountable, that they are externally motivated, but you might you could be there all day, if I can, if you wanted to. That was my first swear word today. Oh, yeah. Yeah,

Jac Simmonds  18:09  
I thought. Now you're right Nicko. And I remember you mentioning as well, many lecturing. COVID how you enjoyed trying at home. And like, obviously, we say quite a lot of crossfitters. And then that's a big group of people who do rely quite a bit on the external motivation. So I think I think you're right. Like the camaraderie gets them there. Yeah, it's probably a common theme with power lifters. Where, yeah, like, a bit more intrinsic motivation, because you're the one that's got to get to the gym, pick up the weight, and, you know, you got to track it and, you know, tick all the boxes, and no one's lifting that weight for you.

Nick Papastamatis  18:39  
You can't cheat a rep. Like, if you don't lift it, it's gonna crush you.

Jac Simmonds  18:43  
Yeah. Do the work. It's not like you're in a CrossFit box with 20 people around you

Nick Papastamatis  18:47  
just cut you cut. You just skip a few reps.

Jac Simmonds  18:49  
Yeah, exactly. One Rep. It sounds it sounds I'm like CrossFit session.

Nick Papastamatis  18:52  
Heavy. Your shoulder. Yeah, no one's around. I just did three wall balls. 30...30 nah I'm getting fitter.

Jac Simmonds  19:02  
Every minute on the minute every three minutes.

Nick Papastamatis  19:05  
Pretty much yeah, so I suppose um, I suppose you know, we've, we've touched, we want to touch on a few things. The first one being your, your sporting background. We've talked a little bit already about your transition points from rugby to powerlifting. And how sort of rugby helped you. But it's sounding like the transition point doesn't matter so much. It's more the fact that your intrinsic motivation is there. Yeah. I suppose now, I want to just circle back to, to, you know, like, I mean, with physios and chiros. I mean, we look after we've looked after you for several years now. Injuries is a big part of people's lives. And a lot of people are hampered by them by injuries and pain. And we've actually had people come up to us and tell us, it's so awesome to hear how much these podcasts actually helped them with their understanding of their own pain. And the fact that they're not the only one that have has pain, but I'm super interested in if you're open to share Maybe just some of the big injuries that you've had and how that impacted you, your life and your training. 

Matthew Bartholomew  20:04  
Absolutely. Um, if everyone to rugby days, the biggest injury that I had in my time playing rugby was a mcl tear of the knee with some bone bruising, meniscus damage, whatnot, which was pretty much just like a blunt force, like, see you later. With some big, big old, the old prop probably just fell on me. And that was it. That was actually, that was super heartbreaking. Because in that vehicle, right? I had progress from a point where back in school were actually done the MCL tear of the elbow, not in rugby, different story. That process really restricted me from making that first grade side, and I was in second grade side after recovery, right. And I went through that process went over to Eastwood started in sort of second third grade Colts worked up to first grade. That was about second or third game, and I did my knee. Right. So just climb, climb, climb the mountain, effectively. just climb the mountain and achieve what I wanted to achieve or started to get to that level, you know. And then this this thing really out of my control happened. I think I lost 13 centimeters of circumference on my quad, in a few months.

Jac Simmonds  21:25  
Your quad was looking like mine.

Nick Papastamatis  21:27  
At it's best....after a squat sesh.

Matthew Bartholomew  21:34  
My dad and I had a lot of deep chats during this process, because that was really mentally tough. For me like I was like pretty upset. very upset. I remember. Remember some some chats. Yeah. And yeah, that was that was a process. But you know, just like I do with most things, I was able to find perspective on that. 

Nick Papastamatis  21:53  
What were you trying to work through? What was that? Do you mind if you share some of those chats? Or would you prefer to keep that? 

Matthew Bartholomew  21:57  
Yeah, so I mean, essentially, is essentially a lot of that is was was based around, When you have this mentality that I'm describing, it's an all fucking in. All in its chips on the table. Risk, right, the risk is there. And I talk about this a lot with my lifters. Because I got some lifters who will miss a lift, and they cry. And I love to see it. Yeah. And I have other lifters who miss laugh it off, brush it off. See you later. I'm like, you're not really chips on the table about this. Yeah. Right. So there's a difference. And so I put all my chips on the table with a rugby scenario. All in on a bet lost a bit, life's earnings, so to speak gone. So that was the mentality. And so for myself, the conversations with my dad were around, working through that process in stages, like, it was so useful to have chats around finding perspective around the small wins of the rehab progress of whatnot. Right? So that's kind of where we were at with it. And that's the mentality. It's like, some people won't get that it's like some people will look at an athlete who fails and cries and go what a crybaby what it wuss, you don't understand, like, for the most part, for the most part, the reason that emotion surfaces is because there is so much invested in in that person in their process, that some people will never understand why I can't explain it to you guys right now, you might not actually understand truly how I feel right now. And that's that's the process that we went through. But again, like that experience is a badge. And it's a piece of armor for now. So I've had my own experiences within the powerlifting process, where I have the fortitude to handle things that come my way, because of those experiences. And that's the kind of process we went through. It's like finding that glass half full process, because some people will experience something like that, and it's too much and then you never really see them again and never really put the chips on the table again. 

This is a tough one as well. I talk to a lot of athletes about as a coach is you fail. Sometimes in whatever endeavor, you're doing but let's talk powerlifting you fail from time to time. And it's very important that we don't let those fails take away from our all in mentality if that's what we want. That's what we truly want. Yeah. So yeah, I guess that's a little bit of an insight, and i'm not sure if that's super clear, but...

Nick Papastamatis  24:18  
Well, I think there's there's definitely like a greiving process that you've had to go through of lose of the perceivable loss of the loss of learning as you put it and, you know, when you're when you've just had an injury that you just not sure how exactly coming back to, like, Am I gonna be the same again, like, like that those questions have to go through your mind throughout that process, especially when you get up out of the chair, and your knee wants to buckle under you. Because you have no mcl it's kind of like well, oh shit, what happens when I need to change direction?

Jac Simmonds  24:49  
There's also like, How old were you when this happened? 

Matthew Bartholomew  24:52  
It would have been 20.

Jac Simmonds  24:54  
20. Yeah, so like and you know, first major, major injury. It's having the emotional maturity and the experience with injury and rehab and all these things which which guides you're you're, you know, future experiences as well. And if you don't have that, that background of having gone through these things, and it can be a bloody scary process, right, like, Yeah, I definitely see it in the clinic. I don't know about you Nicko, but like first time injuries. Yeah, they're always worse. They're always worse, of course, because it's a new experience. And, you know, there's a whole lot of things chemically going on emotionally going on, you know, with people. So

Nick Papastamatis  25:26  
Yeah, there's Yeah, it must definitely, especially people that have hurt themselves. Their back for the first time. Yeah, neck. Yes, there is a huge amount of fear associated with that, but it usually usually it's associated with, with what that area of their body means to them. So for example, your knee, you know, Matty might have might have, that's, that's pivotal for you. But then if someone who doesn't play rugby hurt their mcl, Yes, it It hurts me when I get out of the car. But that's about it. And it doesn't mean as much so really the fear and the emotions associated with the injury are just not as amplified or as acute. And so I can only I, like you said, I don't know I i can only try and embody how you felt but that through an athlete's journey is is huge. So um in terms of I know, we started working together back at the old Castle Hill clinic, so that that will be more than five years ago now. Shit. 

Matthew Bartholomew  26:22  
Yeah, it was pretty much we started working together when I had a lot of issues in my left hip, couldn't back squat without really bad pain. And I was just about to prep my first comp. Yeah. And I was front squatting that prep, hoping that I would improve. Yeah. Mitchell Kennedy, got me onto you.

Nick Papastamatis  26:41  
Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew Bartholomew  26:42  
Yeah. And I had been working with some other guys on it for a year or two, with no improvements. And I think we did a session with about 80% improvement. And then two sessions later, I was back squatting. So that was like, game changer. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and that was like, our kickoff, which is pretty cool. Yeah. And that meant that I think I started that prep with the 200 kilos back squat I thought was pretty good at the time. And then I back squat a 230, with six weeks of back squatting and six weeks of front squatting. And the work we did together. Yeah. So that's like, our kickoff was really awesome. And that was like, right at the start of powerlifting. Yep. So like, that was awesome.

Nick Papastamatis  27:20  
Yeah. So yeah, there was there was that there was that initial up kick start up the hill. Yeah. I suppose I suppose when it comes to injuries. I mean, you would have had you would have had physio work done At school I'd imagine. Yeah. Yeah. So what what's what's been your experience in terms of the diversity of types of practitioners and types of therapies that you've had? What's worked and what hasn't for you?

Matthew Bartholomew  27:44  
It's super interesting. And I think that it's dependent upon as you guys would probably agree, so dependent on upon the needs of the individual. So you're going to have some people who come in, who just need a bit of hands on, and that's going to be their thing. And that's going to be all they need. Right? And then you have the athlete perspective, which I think's way more multi dimensional. You know, there's the idea about the biopsychosocial model, right? Yeah. And I think my eyes have been open to that concept and how important it is to my process of like, injury recovery or maintenance of the body or performance. And across my time, I've experienced a pretty diverse range of quality and attentiveness and care. I think care has got to be the number one Yeah, for sure. Care is like, care is the awareness of this like model Hmm, care is this awareness of like this human thing in front of you, that he thinks feels, has his body as well, and like has joints and all these things that needs to be done to be treated. Yeah, there's so many factors that can go into the success or failure of that process. Yes. And whether those things are paid attention to is care.

Jac Simmonds  27:45  
Interesting.

Matthew Bartholomew  28:01  
Yeah. And that's been my biggest pickup.

Nick Papastamatis  28:54  
So how does how does how does one care?

Jac Simmonds  28:57  
Yeah. What are the tangibles there like, what what do you look for? or what have you seen has worked in terms of care from a practitioner, because that's really that's really interesting, because it's something we talked about...

Matthew Bartholomew  29:06  
The tangibles would have to be relationship. So that when I come through the door, this person knows me. Yep. understands me, and has interest. Yes. And straightaway forming that relationship creates trust, creates buy in. And I think I can talk about my experiences with Nick, when we have that experience about my hip was, you know, he was interested in my outcome. He wanted to help me. He knew how to help me and then he helped me. Yes. And so we tick these boxes that created a process of really trust and acknowledgement of care. And that meant that instead of coming to sessions, wondering how it's going to go, you come in sessions excited, and you're coming out with an outcome. So for me, those are the tangibles. It's like a big a big one. There has to be relationship. I feel.

Jac Simmonds  30:00  
Yep.

Matthew Bartholomew  30:01  
If you're walking into a room with a stranger, and they sort of like touch your leg and go, that's what we're doing today. It's like, meh, like, Okay. Like I think that's such a massive one. And it's like, I know that now. Because also, like, we've had chats about, you know, perhaps after the fact of treating something, you'll you'll sort of let me in on some of the insights of like, hey, Matty, like, that was kind of 10% physical dude. Yeah.

Nick Papastamatis  30:26  
I've done that, like, just curiously. 

Matthew Bartholomew  30:29  
But that's super cool. Because like, I've said to you, like, I would never know in a moment, like which part of that model you're addressing. But I think for a practitioner to one have the care, but also have the knowledge to be able to implement those factors at the right time to get the outcome. That's an art dude.

Nick Papastamatis  30:46  
Art. Yeah.

Matthew Bartholomew  30:51  
That, that, that to me is an art, that, and that's something which is less about the qualification. Yeah. What you've done in what you've studied, it's more about like, Who are you? And do you give a fuck.

Nick Papastamatis  31:01  
Yeah, yeah. You said something before, I think you've you've actually raised it twice. Now. Certainty of self efficacy, i.e. when you taking an injury, or you're taking yourself as a as a person, a biopsychosocially affected person to a practitioner, how important is it to you? Well, fuck is the answer to this question is pretty freakin obvious. How important is it to you that that practitioner is clearly certain in the fact that they know what they're what they're doing? 

Matthew Bartholomew  31:37  
It's a really good question because like, because that's the thing, you know, like, like this, they're perhaps so many instances where it's where it's like, an individual a practitioner, is is obviously going to attack a situation and a problem with the knowledge they have. And so certainty in that may will be half the battle in some situations, even if you weren't hitting the nail on the head, you're going to hit it a little more squarely, if you're coming at it with that certainty, because there's that human being on the other end. Yes, that reacts to your tone, what you say what your eyes do when you say it. And you come across, right? Yeah. If I'm looking at you, like, Hey, dude, like, so I think it's your vastus lateralis. Yes. Like, I don't know what those words are. But you seem shifty, bro. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Because Because you're not sitting in the room with a potato in the room with a human. Yeah. You know, like, funnily enough.

Jac Simmonds  32:40  
Yeah, for sure. 

Matthew Bartholomew  32:41  
Like for anyone out there who didn't realize that there are potatoes who get treated? Yeah. I think I think I think the awareness and the recognition that you're dealing with another high functioning person, yes. And that they can see you and hear you and actually have their own forming their judgments and opinions in real time....

Nick Papastamatis  32:58  
Oh definitely.

and that impacts this affects whatever the hell you're addressing. Yeah, mind, buddy.

Jac Simmonds  33:03  
So another thing you actually mentioned earlier was, you know, people who just come in and need some treatment, and then people who need a problem solved. We actually bucket those people. It sounds bucketing people, but we break it up into....

Matthew Bartholomew  33:17  
Bucketing potatoes.

Jac Simmonds  33:19  
Exactly, yes, but...washed and unwashed. But you basically explained, you basically explained the process and outcomes focus people. Yeah, and I know, we've spoken about this before, obviously, but, you know, there's a big spectrum of what people need and what people want from us. And it all fits on the biopsychosocial model. So it's, it's, um, and I know you pick on, because you're very introspective as well. But it's, it's, it's a massive part of what we do, and being able to identify what actually someone needs and wants. 

Nick Papastamatis  33:51  
And people vary on that scale. So sometimes they can be very much focused on their outcomes. Yeah. And it's like, right, where we're, and then other days where, say, for example, Matt, we've had plenty of these situations of, I've just hurt myself. Yeah, like that there is like a don't worry about the outcome. Just like, I need to. I need to feel better. Yeah, no, yeah. Oh, we're on the training platform. And were at the back warming up for deadlifts nationals. Yeah, not Yeah. And it's like, that's not a nice time for a prognosis. That's that's time that's not for just just rub it a bit better. And then I remember actually, um, during the Rugby League season, in some of the Facebook forums, they actually saw physio get on the field. Yeah. And it was mid game. He runs on with his with his hyper ice the the large gun. Yeah. And he just starts like, massaging one of the players like, you know, lat or ql or something like that during the game on the field on the field. And it obviously was televised. Yeah, and got picked up and this guy copped it. 

Jac Simmonds  34:54  
The evidence base warriors would be all over that space.

Nick Papastamatis  34:57  
Absolutely. They hammered him for it what else? Am I gonna advise? Yeah, no, well, you realize that everything is gonna be ok.

Jac Simmonds  35:05  
Three sets of 10 of this..

Nick Papastamatis  35:06  
Let's do some rehab and reassure you like and so but that process, that physical process of stimulating the nerves and stuff like that, then that creates an effect. That in itself is reassurance like how often have you had something for lack of a better term? How often have you had something rubbed better? Daily nightly and ever so rightly.

Jac Simmonds  35:39  
Can you repeat the question Nick? Would you like to rephrase the question?

Nick Papastamatis  35:48  
Let me start again, I'll say I did say I prefaced it with, for lack of a better term for lack of a better term. 

Matthew Bartholomew  36:02  
Something that seemingly wouldn't make something better yet does. 

Nick Papastamatis  36:04  
Does that does that actually how often does it the this is getting the sore spot rubbed? And actually improved? Not not so much the pain but most of your confidence?

Matthew Bartholomew  36:14  
Yeah, I think that I'm not sure. Like how often or how many times but there have certainly been cases, one that comes to mind was a little bit of an adductor issue that I had a couple preps ago during a sumo deadlift had effectively a tweak that felt like a little strain or something like that came in saw Nick, I remember it, and we've discussed it. And you know, he's kind of real poker face like gone in, check it out, like moving the tissue around.

Oh oh, man, this is just a bit caught up  in here and he gets the faktr out and around, right? And I'm there going oh it's just a bit caught up. 

Nick Papastamatis  36:51  
It's all theatrics.

Matthew Bartholomew  36:55  
And it felt really good. And then like, we've kicked on and next session pain free. And it's like, Okay, hold on a second. Like, we can look at that. And we can look at it many different ways, but we've achieved outcome, dude. Yeah, yeah, that's the goal. And like this guy with his like, you know, jackhammer gun, whatever he's doing, come up this NRL guy. Yeah. The guy ran back onto the field and keep playing?

Nick Papastamatis  37:13  
Yeah, that's the point.

Matthew Bartholomew  37:13  
If he did what, what merit is there in saying that was the wrong methodology? Hmm. 

Nick Papastamatis  37:18  
There is none.

Matthew Bartholomew  37:19  
Like, yo, like, missing the forest for the trees big time.

Nick Papastamatis  37:24  
I think i think a lot of the evidence base warriors are like how we call them warriors.

Matthew Bartholomew  37:28  
I'm just imagining sword and shield. Yeah.

Nick Papastamatis  37:31  
Like, but they're using a book.

Jac Simmonds  37:32  
Yeah. Yeah, a dumbbell in and a textbook.

Nick Papastamatis  37:43  
And so, um, like, a lot of them, what they are what it seems like, and I can almost hear them saying it is kind of like, Yeah, but that that doesn't breed empowerment in the athlete that breeds the thought that you're dependent on the practitioner. Or what are your thoughts on that now? 

Matthew Bartholomew  37:59  
Um, I mean, honestly, I can understand that point of view, but as the athlete, we're coming to the practitioner, we're coming to someone with a need. Right. And in that moment, there is a bloody reliance on that person. Of course there is Yeah. Like, are we gonna are we living in a world where we want to get to a point where the athletes like, I can fix my own shit? Yeah,

Nick Papastamatis  38:20  
Yeah. Yeah, he's at the point, like, probably not.

Matthew Bartholomew  38:22  
Like probably you guys are upskilled to the point that you can help me because you know more about my body.

Jac Simmonds  38:27  
Yeah. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, exactly. You know, so...

Nick Papastamatis  38:30  
and you're and you're obviously like, qualified and you've done the research. You've got the knowledge. A good idea. Yeah. Like a general, compared to some athletes that don't. 

Jac Simmonds  38:39  
But saying that like me, like, do you go to see one of us if you've got an injury? Of course, yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's reassurance.

Matthew Bartholomew  38:47  
It's just like saying, Okay, we've got all these diseases out there. And like, there, there are doctors, and there are people who are really well trained to come up with vaccines and cures. Oh but are we always relying on that? It's like, boy, yeah man. Yeah,

Nick Papastamatis  39:02  
Exactly. Yeah. So. So then the question is, is there anything wrong with that dependence? 

Matthew Bartholomew  39:06  
Essentially I think not. Yeah, I don't think there is a big like, flame to put out there. Like, oh, my goodness, this is a big problem. You know, ah again, so long as we don't take that right to the end of the spectrum.

Nick Papastamatis  39:17  
Yes. Where it's like where you're completely dependent? 

Matthew Bartholomew  39:20  
Absolutely. Like, I think the part of the role of practitioner and like athlete practitioner relationship, I'm an athlete is that we are able to give the reigns to the athlete to be autonomous, more and more and more, yes, but there are always going to be cases are often going to be cases where the athlete is not equipped. Right. So they their in comes, the reliance and that's the balance you're playing with.

Jac Simmonds  39:42  
Yes. I'd be interested to know, like, just on that. Yeah, that's good. Do you like in your in your own coaching is that something that you employ as well lack I mean, I'm sure there's, I'm sure there's athletes that you have who can become over reliant or the reliance can drop off over time. That's, I guess, something you've got to be aware of, with your athletes too.

Matthew Bartholomew  40:03  
Really simple way for us to connect these dots cueing in coaching, cueing new athlete first at a team that had to learn a bunch of things about squatting. So we've broken it down into several cues, which we think are important for them to think about front of mind. When squatting Yeah, if I'm in a face to face session with them, I'll be I'll be spitting those out there reminding them throughout the set throughout this session is what we're doing have discussions, lots of discussions. My first initial pts with people is chat, man. Yeah, lifting but it's chat it's concepts. Do you understand what is going on with like your pelvis? Yeah, do you get it? You don't let's do a drill, make you understand it and then implement that into the squat. Yeah. As we go along, say 4 week, six week, depending on the capability of the person, how much time and effort they're putting in. That interference, or that contribution from me is going to steadily taper because I want to hand them the reigns of like doing their own shit. Right? Yeah. So that's the the easiest contrast I could make to the scenario we just chatted about. Yes, absolutely. There's a degree or there's a, there's a certain amount along the spectrum that is required at any given point in time, depending on depending on a variety of factors. And that's up to the professional to decide. Exactly.

Jac Simmonds  41:16  
Yeah, yeah. 100%. And you'd see it as well, like, obviously, Nicko and us working with you like there's point in time where I guess, touch points and things need to be a bit more frequent. And then things can taper off a little bit and things like that, you know, with anyone who's on a sort of who's had acute injuries, and then we sort of taper off to the more maintenance schedule and things like that. It says being able to use your judgment, and I guess adjust that as time goes on. 

Matthew Bartholomew  41:38  
That's the game actually. Because that brings up a really interesting point is that there are certainly practitioners and I've experienced this, because of what I know now, because of what I've experienced now, that will kind of feed that reliance, when perhaps they know that they don't need to, and perhaps they could hand you some reins, and that's a money thing sometimes. And that's just my opinion. That's my opinion, is that like getting through the door. Finance is always a sign of it. And a business game is important. But there is a what's the word like to say something about being genuine. when when when a chiropractor or a physio says to you... Hey, um, I've been seeing you weekly. Yeah, you're doing really well. You've learned a lot of stuff. Can I see in a month? Yeah. And they and the client goes, Oh, so he's not just gonna string me along for the next six months every week and values that we've made progress. And that's a that's a relationship that's being built. Right. So like, that's a part of it as well.

Jac Simmonds  42:29  
Nick and I could bang on about this forever,

Matthew Bartholomew  42:31  
I do that with my guys too. So I start with 90 minute PT sessions. Yeah, I literally say to them on their initial consult phone call. Hey, so we're going to do this for two or three weeks. And then after that, you will not need me for 90 minutes. Yeah, yeah, scale back to 45. They'll go, huh? say, no, no. Let's go back to 45. And then after that, three weeks later, we can come back to 30s. We touch base, we do some good stuff. But you're good. Yes. You know stuff now.

Nick Papastamatis  42:53  
Yeah, yeah. Right.

Matthew Bartholomew  42:54  
That's my responsibility. And that's me taking money out of my pocket. Because I'm like, good human being... or trying to be one, right? Yeah, that's a part of it as well. It's like, Where's your intent?

Jac Simmonds  43:03  
But the thing is, as well, like you, you're at a point as well, where you just don't need to, you know, like you've got, you've got enough people and enough interest in things like if it's... 

Nick Papastamatis  43:03  
From a financial point of view.

Jac Simmonds  43:12  
Exactly. But then we've spoken about this before, Nicko. But like there's over servicing under servicing that whole thing.

Matthew Bartholomew  43:18  
When you start out in the game. And you're right, like I actually touched on this the other day with someone is that initially, like one of my clients came to me and said, Hey, I'm gonna stop doing pts for the next four to six weeks, because I've got bills, this and that. And they were kind of scared to see what my reaction was. Yeah. And I actually said to them, hey, look, if he says to me three, four years ago, I'd be like, Oh, my goodness, like, I don't have that many clients of right now, this is going to hurt my back pocket. But I am in a position of luxury now where I have a lot of clients. You know, business is good. So if someone doesn't need me, and we need to go through that process of them taking the reins a bit more, that's cool. There's not even a thought process of that, because it's care for them. Now, always, always put that first, what's your outcome? And like, I need to put food on the table. But that comes first. And inevitably that comes back.

Nick Papastamatis  44:00  
Yeah, it absolutely does. And I think I think this is where this is where like a lot of business owners don't get the basics right. Look, we've we've harped on in with all our internal training here at balance with there's a shitload of internal training, if you're going to manage any person with a problem properly. It's they're not they're not leaving the clinic anytime soon. Yeah, it solving a problem is not a short term game. And so it doesn't it's not and I'm not saying that from a point of view of let's rope them in. No, actually knowing the right thing to do. And planning with your patient about what the right thing to do is. That is that is evidence based health care. That's also making a difference to people's lives. The idea the idea is is is you if you do the right thing And there is a saying the right things always the right thing. Like, you can't just, you can't just rope people in because it fills your books. Doing the right thing will.

Jac Simmonds  45:10  
Exactly.

Matthew Bartholomew  45:11  
Yeah. Because hopefully, most of us got into this health care thing to take care of people's health. Right. Yeah. And so at the core of that with taking care of people, when you take care of people and do the right thing, when they need you again, when they need someone again, yeah, they probably come back and see you. Yeah. And again, to the mom, the dad their best mate and their sister and their brother. Yeah, so that's how businesses grow.

Jac Simmonds  45:32  
Yeah, just one more point on that as well. I was listening to a podcast the other day, actually, and I don't think they're wrong in what they said, because this is the perception, I guess where what they said was physios and chiros have a vested interest in you coming back. And I can understand how they came to that that point. But I think it's I think it's incorrect. But I can understand the perspective. It actually, it's definitely not something I feel in myself. 100% not and it I don't think it's a systemic thing across physios and chiros, I mean, it's definitely happening. But there has to be that balance between over servicing under serving, obviously, it's never crossed, it's never crossed my mind where I have a financial vested interest in a patient like that just makes me feel slimy and dirty about that. Like, it's definitely not the case. And if that's your business model, and I can understand the perception out there that that was a big generalization. It's just I think it's incorrect.

Matthew Bartholomew  46:31  
Well, yeah, I think it comes down to less of, is it a physio and chiro thing, it's like is it a Jac or a Nick or that guy thing? That doesn't sit well with you as a person. Yeah. And you just happen to be a physio or chiro, right. So like, that's where it is more for me. And I see it in coaches, too. It's like, that client who came to me said, Oh, sorry, I can't do x y, zz for the next four weeks, has probably had an experience with a PT would have said that. And that PT is gone this and that and moan and groan and that's been a big deal. Yeah, because that person is in it for some kind of financial gain. Like we all need x y z, but it's like, why actually in it, it's not sustainable, either. Yeah, and like we said, doing the right thing and producing results, which is a big part of it, too. Like he can be a really good person and like, be really crappy at producing outcomes and probably not gonna grow business. So it kind of both of them are important. But that aspect of what is the priority and why you actually in it? is probably the number one. Yeah,

Nick Papastamatis  47:29  
Well, I'll tell you what we we often flying through. And and we've we've got, we've got a couple of other things that we'd love to ask you. Especially because we've covered a lot on chiros and physios your experiences with others, everything you've said has been like schmick ...trying my best! Question. Question by like a notepad here. Yeah. When it comes to you as an athlete now, yep. Now we've talked a lot about, you know, your transition points and your history and chiro/physio, I suppose now as an athlete, everyone's on their own journey. Now, I think especially of the past couple of years where we've, well I've said we've, like, this is a process which involves very much a network of people in a constant conversation. But you have had to go through suppose optimizing different elements of your health, where you've got a great coach in Andrew Tang, who's an excellent physio at the same time. You've got a network like us where you don't see just one you don't see me. Actually, you don't see me at all these days. We do a lot of we do a lot of discussion points. And mainly the treatment is done by a selection of our practitioners. And and, and then you've got Dean McKillop. I know, I'm rattling this off for you. But I want to hear it from you as well. But I suppose I'd love to hear the journey of learning the strength and conditioning involved in your power lifting, and then needing to then realize that Oh, my biochemistry, my nutritional health is now critical. Yeah. And then realizing, oh, my psychological health is now critical. Like how is that balancing act been? Has it been a balancing act? Or have you had to learn them in segments?

Matthew Bartholomew  49:24  
It's been a funny one. It's definitely a balancing act with psychology could be a really important component that needs to be worked on. Let's say like the first year of powerlifting, like I'm so out of my depth this is so stressful that and that's really impeding on performance for whatever reason, which we worked on, it's not necessarily faisel like that might come back and like you fall I'm just certainly has certainly been aspects where I feel really mentally strong and like I can really attack the tasks I'm being asked to from a mental standpoint. And so I think those are very much interchangeable aspects and when it comes to how I've managed that you can only you can only do so as things things crop up, which is why it's so important to have, in my opinion, I always back this, and this is why I do it because I believe it is to have the team that I have around me, the ones you just listed off means that like, as we've seen recently, you know, the context, in those times of need across all of those factors, I have someone to call on. The only gap there I would say, at this point, and we discussed filling this gap is the psychology aspect. And like not not completely like I don't I don't work with say a psychologist right now. But all of the people in my team contribute to that psychological readiness in their own way. Dean does it on the calls, and we talk about nutrition, but how often we talk about psychology, honestly, yeah, I really do. Yeah. Tang has his consistent communication with me, and he knows me like the back of his hand, he knows how to get the most out of me. And you guys have learned so much about how I react to what you do with me and here, what my beliefs are, what my perceptions are, when I'm doing what and how that plays into my performance and what part of the week and be ready or this or that. And all parts of that are equally important. But definitely rising importance at different parts of the process run. Yeah, so I don't know, for me, for me, it's not something that's necessarily like super front of mind, in reflection, you can go oh yeah that was really important then and like I lacked a bit of strength here or whatever. But it's something that I guess, for athletes. It's important to have the crew around you the pit crew around you, you're equipped, right? Yeah, and that's a big one. Yep. I'm equipped as an athlete. Yes, if I'm a coach, but like scrap that I'm an athlete in and if I can just be an athlete and be a really good one and apply the stuff that I'm being asked to do by coach in coaches saying this is what you can do you go do it and practitioners saying but he's equipped yeah that niggle we've handled that you go do it right. And nutrition guys saying your body's like so stacked with glycogen right now, this is how we've done it. If you applied yourself there, you've been really meticulous and you have you know, an hour sleep. Off we go as I call this is the package. This is that physical, chemical, psychological package. And that's like, if any one of these elements is full enough. All the rest is like Jenga, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, off they go. I'm not experienced that a lot of times where I've been nailing a couple pillars. Yep. And then one just haven't been paying attention to it in my time. And scrap it. You know, like, you can fluff around in the middle. Yeah, taking care of some of them and whatever. But if I'm trying to push world class.

Nick Papastamatis  52:33  
Yeah, one one bad night sleep is not not not included. 

Matthew Bartholomew  52:36  
Totally. Yeah, absolutely. Great. Absolutely. You know, it's a it's a game of averages. Yeah. But yeah, it's it's a process. And, you know, we talked about, you know, what the most people not do, right. Talk about that. Yeah, it's a game there that we would see that you start you guys would see here in the clinic. Right. That'd be like common trends. Like when I get on rehab, most people maybe don't do their rehab consistently. And they come back with the same issue. My my opinion, and that probably aligns is that most people don't do the basics really, really well. They underestimate in powerlifting they underestimate the basics, and they overestimate the little rocks. Right? The new knee leaves. Oh, it's gonna put this much on my squat beginning six hours sleep every night.

Jac Simmonds  53:20  
Yeah. Okay, partying on the weekend. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Matthew Bartholomew  53:24  
And a massive part of that, too, is also aligning goals with expectations with inputs. Yeah. So, you know, do weekend warrior style powerlifting guy who you know, has a full time job is really busy. You know, maybe he's got maybe he's got like his marriage coming up, or like it he's got all this stuff going on, might not have the ability to input the same as maybe what I do right now in my life, maybe. And so my expectations can possibly be a lot higher than that person's and the outcome is really, really important. The outcome there is not even like the kilos, it's the happiness.

Nick Papastamatis  53:56  
Yes.

Matthew Bartholomew  53:56  
You know, so I talked about this quite a lot is that if my goal is I want to squat 300, that's my, that's a big goal of mine. whenever that happens, I don't really put a timeline on it. I want to squat 300 kilos. For me, that is a realistic goal that I have access to the inputs to reach. And when I reach it, I'm gonna be really bloody happy. If I had someone else who's I'm currently to 280 squat. If I had somebody else at a 200 squat, who really doesn't have time to train more than three times a week, doesn't really care about the nutrition and just like, gets what I was like, works out, and they say, almost 300 they actually really mean it. And actually, really, really, really, when I get there as bad as I do, yeah, they are setting themself up on happiness, which is a massive part.

Nick Papastamatis  54:41  
You see that happen a lot. I see that happens sometimes.

Matthew Bartholomew  54:43  
I don't see it happen a lot. I see happen sometimes. And if it's my client have to have that chat.

Nick Papastamatis  54:48  
Yeah, you know, yeah, the come to Jesus conversation, have that chapter and marry the truth.

Matthew Bartholomew  54:53  
You know what, like, I've held back from having those chats before and it's only meant that pain comes through. And I've now realized, oh, okay, I need to maybe give them a small amount of pain right now to stop that later.

Nick Papastamatis  55:03  
Yeah. 

Matthew Bartholomew  55:03  
So that's kind of a bit of a crazy way I've gotten around that original question. But in terms of what most people, you know, don't normally address, it's like, taking care of the big picture, the right amount of all pieces of the big picture, to create the path of the goal that is realistic, relative to what you can do, what your capacity is. Right? So that's a big like, sort of equation there.

Nick Papastamatis  55:27  
So what about in someone who is because that that like the way you do it in the way you dial it in you also that the part that I admire... I admire a lot about you, Matt. But when I admire a specific part, it's your receptiveness to opinion. From your inner circle from your trusted from your trusted. Now, I'm sure you get opinions everywhere. It's more just, it's more just, you know, when when we bring something up, you know, there's a reason behind it. Yeah. Now, I suppose the receptiveness is a big one, because the amount of times I've like, I've put something on the table for someone, and they've rejected that. And then, years later, it turns out to be true. I just wish that they received it then they just weren't ready. I suppose. My question now is, you said something about your capacity, and having that sort of having the the faculties to do it? What do you see like a lot of people that are trying to get into their fitness journey, whether that's in powerlifting? What what what is it that they that? Is it the fact that they're trying to strive too hard, why do people quit? Is it because they're not cutting themselves slack?

Matthew Bartholomew  56:37  
I think I think more people need to be more real with themselves as to the amount of resources that are going to be necessary to achieve these goals. Yep, there's an underestimation of what it's going to take to achieve an outcome. And this is truly created through social media. Yeah, we see, time and time again, individuals that have worked really hard across the years to get super strong, or super large, or look really jacked. And then the crazy thing about that is to maintain that kind of state takes a lot less work than originally took to get there. So we get used to this wonderland of marketing, that goes out to the consumer, which says, Look at me, yeah, this is what I do right? Now, you can have this too. And it sells his dream. It's a bit of a tangent, but it sells his dream that it's gonna be an easy road that it's going to take much you can have balance. But in reality, to achieve amazing things, you've gotta not make sacrifices, but you got to put some stuff in.

Jac Simmonds  57:37  
Yeah, I think you and I were having this chat before we came on it that like, and I mentioned it to you, but you're one of the rare ones on Instagram that is popular due to your performance as well. And I think sometimes, you know, people will see your, you know, your 280 squat, or, you know, whatever it might be, but that and, you know, not seeing what goes into that as well. And you know, your weekend warrior nine to five, it's pretty unrealistic for someone like that, right? Like you've got, you know, obviously, a team around you, you've got the resources you've got, you know, you're in the powerlifting world, you work in the powerlifting world, you know, you're really well set up, which is awesome. So, yeah, I think two things there, I guess, like, yeah, you, you know, popular due to performance, and which is awesome. But also, the perception of that performance and how it's achieved can sometimes be a little bit skewed.

Matthew Bartholomew  58:27  
And that's a really hard one to escape, you know, because as an athlete, there's a scene that goes around, you know, like, for example, I've had a bunch of crap that's happened in this prep, that wasn't ideal that I haven't shown to the Instagram world.

Jac Simmonds  58:40  
Yeah. 

Matthew Bartholomew  58:41  
Because my purpose in the social media world is honestly far less important than my athletic endeavors.

Nick Papastamatis  58:50  
Yeah, 

Matthew Bartholomew  58:51  
I say that open. Yeah. Yeah. When asked me, I would throw that account down the bin. If it had sacrificing anything about my athletic endeavors.

Jac Simmonds  58:59  
Yeah, get out. Yeah.

Matthew Bartholomew  59:01  
I don't need it. I'm on there for leisure, for fun for support for helping people for giving advice. It's a great it really is... touch base with people. But I did not feel the responsibility to showcase the whole process. Unless I feel like it.

Nick Papastamatis  59:17  
Yes, right.

Matthew Bartholomew  59:18  
Number one, numero uno in the athlete performance pursuit is self. You actually I've actually had to learn to be more selfish, because I used to be that guy who was like, Hey, guys had a bad day today like, Did this really sucks. Here's the full spectrum just because I'm honest.

Jac Simmonds  59:35  
Yeah. 

Matthew Bartholomew  59:35  
And it's like, holy shit. Did I gain anything from that? Or was that as giving to others? Essentially, it was the latter. Oh, yeah. Which is cool. I respect that. And that's you. That's completely fine. But you also shouldn't feel obliged to just like be this open book on social media. That's something I've learned. Yeah, thing of people have noticed. I be like, Hey, man, you know, posting as much these days and it's like, Yeah, actually don't really just share as much stuff. Yeah, you know, I don't I kind of just like flicks himself out there. It's cool and like people Follow me and like to see it. And that's nice. But like I said, I think the importance I mean, I've understood is being a lot more in context these days versus maybe 1, 2, 3 years ago, not to share everything, right. Yeah. I think the crux of that what I'm getting at is like, you're right. People are seeing me achieving certain things, which is elite in Australian powerlifting. Yes. And they don't know what goes into it until listen to a podcast like this.

Jac Simmonds  1:00:21  
Yeah, right. Mm hmm.

Nick Papastamatis  1:00:23  
Good point along the way, like, this is something I get asked a lot because in in your context, you are an elite athlete in the powerlifting world. And I suppose my efforts in I suppose the nature of what I'm doing is striving towards business elite. Sort of, you know, like, I'm training hard, and working hard.

Jac Simmonds  1:00:46  
And I'm trying to get to a scratch golfer, which Yeah, yeah, that's elite.

Nick Papastamatis  1:00:50  
Yeah how's your shoulder? But I suppose the question I get a lot, and I'm sure you have as well. He's they start asking you why you're doing it until they say what you accomplish. And then they start asking you how, yeah, you did that. And and then you're like, you know, when you were asking me all those fucking years why I'm doing it? Yeah. Well, now you're asking me how. Yeah, how about I don't tell you. 

Matthew Bartholomew  1:01:15  
Yeah, that's a thing. It's, essentially, essentially, it does work out like that, you know, it's been a similar game for me as well. Where I've dead set, had people tell me that I'm not gonna reach elite status in Australia and the world and like, fucken watch me, dude. Yeah, like, and then come ask me out. Yeah. And then I wouldn't reply. Again. Yeah, if someone doesn't squat 300 kilos, or a business opens, like 12 clinics, for example. You know, there's some shit happening behind the scenes, if you switched on to it. If you're not doesn't matter.

Nick Papastamatis  1:01:53  
That's cool. You know, it's, it's more just and this is where, like, how people are, how we all are, is more a reflection of us at the time, rather than everybody else. And I suppose, you know, when you say that you're potentially oversharing. Or like sharing every minute by minute sort of status. That was probably a reflection of what was going on for you at the time, totally, you know, and potentially something some some sort of need that you were trying to fulfill. And when people are asking you why or doubting you, it's not because they actually are is because they're actually doubting themselves.

Jac Simmonds  1:02:24  
Totally. And just as an outsider looking in as well, like with you, too, you know, and the time that you guys started working together, like Matty, I guess you were just coming up in powerlifting. To starting powerlifting. Nicko, you were, you were just into, like, into business, and you guys have grown over the last, you know, five years sort of together as well. Like, obviously, the businesses is a great stage. Matty, you're obviously doing really well in your in your sport. And I probably think that's fostered you know, your relationship with balance, and everyone here and things like that. So...

Nick Papastamatis  1:02:51  
yeah, yeah, it's it. I think everything happens in like, everything happens for you. Hmm, not to you. And I think this is where people, the questioners are the ones that end up thinking that all why is this happened to me? Yeah, but really the ones that make the progress of the ones that just take it on, accept it and, and take it in stride.

Matthew Bartholomew  1:03:08  
If you were to list all of the setbacks and challenges and shit that's happened within balance as a business. And I was asked to list all the things, setbacks, challenges that have happened as an athlete, all of them do.

Nick Papastamatis  1:03:20  
Mm hmm.

Matthew Bartholomew  1:03:21  
There are so many people, that would be the end game.

Jac Simmonds  1:03:25  
Yeah.

Matthew Bartholomew  1:03:26  
I don't need it. I'll just get a 9-5. Don't worry about it. Yeah, yeah. athlete. Weekend warrior, I don't need it is so much stuff. And again, just cuz you're not sharing, it has been happening. So much stuff. That's like, that's fine. You know. And there's so much in that equation of like, success, whatever that is. Because I think everyone's definition of that is so different. But it's just such a bigger equation than you could ever share on social media. Yeah. So like, for me, it's like not it's not like a why even try, but it's like, if I wish to I will. Yes. In the moment, if I wish to. I will.

Nick Papastamatis  1:03:58  
Yeah, sure. That's fine.

Jac Simmonds  1:04:00  
Definitely. 

Nick Papastamatis  1:04:01  
I definitely think that just that social media thing, and just the different just because I know you, but I think that landscape is changing. And, and and i think that...

Jac Simmonds  1:04:10  
There's enough shredded dudes on Instagram to last us a lifetime. So...

Nick Papastamatis  1:04:14  
I think it is. I think the days of the inspirational quote, are gone. And, and yeah, I think I think, I don't know. It's, it's fascinating. You know, you said, you said before, Matt, where you'd love to go back to back to school kings and sort of just revitalize an impact and have an impact. And it's just interesting, right? Like 10 years ago, when I started practicing. The mechanical model was the way it was all about biomechanics. And it was a it was huge. The person that knew biomechanics really well was sought after. Now, it's not that it's the biopsychosocial model. So I just, I'm just fascinated how every day we're progressing towards the next 10 years. And in 10 years time, we'll look back and listen to these podcasts and just think, geez, You've come a long way. Yeah.

Jac Simmonds  1:05:01  
So it's persistence. And it's, it's just it sounds like it's just not being satisfied at any point, you know, like, you know, stepping back and appreciate it but but appreciating it, but also striving for more so, so, big time.

Nick Papastamatis  1:05:14  
How do people find you man?

Matthew Bartholomew  1:05:15  
_mattbartholomew on Instagram, but you know, not that often these days. Yeah. Yeah, man I've got, I've got an email attached to that if anyone wants to touch base, it may take a long time. It varies. I mean, it's one of those things where again, I'm gonna I'm in a luxurious position where I there's quite a drawn out introductory process where I'm like, is this the right person for me and my team, I really protect my team. Especially if it's face to face. I've brought people in who have broken down the the inner workings of the team...hold on a on a second. Yes, reverse my six months of work, you know, of like building this camaraderie up. So I really protect that team. Which makes it kind of saught after, which is interesting. It's like a lot of inquiries, and that's cool. And I'm always happy to help as well. Like, people message me on Instagram and say, Hey, having this problem with like, leg drive on bench. Can you help me out? And like, voice message here you go, Like, try this out? No worries. I'm super cool like that. Super, super cool like that. I'm super happy to give that advice. So yeah, Instagram _mattbartholomew touch base.

Nick Papastamatis  1:06:16  
Super accessible I find.

Matthew Bartholomew  1:06:17  
I'm accessible. Yeah, I'm not gonna be like, Well, yeah, you can even have a 30 minute consult for $100. So yeah, if you guys want to touch base, if you're interested to know more about what I'm up to, and you have any specific questions, reach me on Instagram. If you'd like to start working with me as a coach, you can email me that's where you can reach me.

Nick Papastamatis  1:06:36  
Nice. Well...

Jac Simmonds  1:06:39  
Yeah, it's been great. Thanks for coming on Matty we've enjoyed it. 

Matthew Bartholomew  1:06:42  
Pleasure, guys. Thanks so much. 

Nick Papastamatis  1:06:44  
Thank you.

Jac Simmonds  1:06:44  
Thank you, ciao.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai