S2Ep5: “Setbacks were the path to the Commonwealth Games” with Scott Wilson

When a natural talent enters the practice it is evident within the first session of meeting them. They have an innate or inborn gift for a specific activity, either allowing one to demonstrate some immediate skill without practice, or to gain skill rapidly with minimal practice. None speaks more true to Scott Wilson. A professional rugby defect, he sought something that would challenge him elsewhere...weightlifting.

Join us as we delve into Scotty's journey to the Commonwealth Games, the trials and tribulations of what it takes to get there and his experience in business ownership.

@greasethegroovecoach

Transcript

Jac Simmonds  6:22  
Welcome. Welcome back on the balance experience podcast.

Nick Papastamatis  6:23  
Oh, yeah,

Jac Simmonds  6:25  
we are back.

Nick Papastamatis  6:25  
I'll tell you what a beautiful day today. And we have a wonderful guest that we've received

Jac Simmonds  6:30  
Beautiful, beautiful guest.

Nick Papastamatis  6:31  
He's both these beautiful, beautiful, wonderful. It's like a butterfly. He is, stings like a butterfly. Not things like a...

Scott Wilson  6:39  
I evolve.

Jac Simmonds  6:40  
Floats like a butterfly. stings like a bee. Scottyy Wilson.

Scott Wilson  6:45  
Guys, how are we? Welcome. Thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it. Good to have you. 

Nick Papastamatis  6:50  
It's gonna be, look, we've had many chats over the years, like you said, just before us got off the off the air. You we met each other in Feb 2015? 

Scott Wilson  6:59  
That is correct. I didn't want to meet you to be honest.

Nick Papastamatis  7:03  
Well, no one does. But then, but then when they do. Oh, to me, Scott, you, you are very inspiring person, because you've been able to accomplish quite a lot in a very short window of time. And I think there are very few that are true athletes. And you I must say I've treated a lot of one of these. And I've treated a lot of people that have tried and failed and you haven't not failed. You have most definitely done well. And, and I definitely think that whatever you kind of pick up from an athletic sense, turns to gold. And I've also had the pleasure of knowing you through some trials and tribulations within your career and within your your life experience. And I'm really interested to see what some of the perspectives you've had and developed over those years. But Scott, I'm very proud to have you on.

Scott Wilson  8:10  
Thank you very much. I appreciate those kind words.

Jac Simmonds  8:13  
Yeah, I think the thing that jumps out to me just before we were sort of planning out, you know, what we're going to talk about as we do before podcasting. I guess what jumps out to me made is the many sports you've played and the success you've had over a, you know, a fairly long period of time, but in different sports and different avenues, which is, which is really cool. I think to kick us off. Where does Where does your story begin mate?

Scott Wilson  8:37  
So, as you can tell with my accent, I'm not from Australia. I was actually born in Germany, my parents Scottish. I grew up in the British Army from birth till I was 13. Coming from an army background, physical capabilities is placed highly up on the ladder. So throughout school, sports was a massive part of my life. I mean, you grew up in the British Army grew up as a pad brat as a kid. You're my parents were my dad was a soldier my mother worked for the army in some continue to develop and grow army grew up in the army, not as a soldier but as a as a child. I was in a in a, in a setting or a social setting, which was in occupied country, essentially, from World War Two. And despite having good relationships with the Germans and having German friends. And yeah, it was in a very isolated community. You are, you're on an island essentially, even though you can go out and communicate with the Germans and I did have German friends growing up. You are in your own little world, essentially your own little bubble. So that's how I would describe growing up.

Jac Simmonds  9:48  
And that was your until you're 13 years old. Yep.

Scott Wilson  9:51  
So I'm moving around a lot from from birth yet. So born in a place called veg Burg and I must have lived in I lived in five different towns and cities in Germany by the time I was 13. So moving around a lot, it's also been a common theme in my life. Yeah, zero to 13 around Germany from 13 to 18 in Scotland and then move to Australia when I was about 19 years old

Jac Simmonds  10:19  
Cray, so growing up in with a one hell of a start to life yeah, so growing up with a father and mother who were in the Defence Force was there like an elements of like a I don't know if militant is the word but like was it was your upbringing sort of like that? 

Scott Wilson  10:34  
My dad is a is an authoritarian is what I would describe as him talking prior to the podcast on like, having issues and things coming up. My dad's have is a hard ass and I take a lot after my Dad, I'm very similar my dad in a way. And yeah, definitely, definitely had a very authoritative or very, like top down upbringing that wasn't very touchy feely and being being aware of your emotions. It was, Do as I say, not as I do sort of bring up upbringing. Gotcha. Yeah. Which has definitely bled into my coaching style. 

Jac Simmonds  11:11  
Right. Okay. 

Nick Papastamatis  11:13  
So, a few things. Yeah. Like, I didn't know, if you did tell me this is maybe I was focused, and I've missed it. But in your first 13 years, did you actually have muchconnection with your family? 

Scott Wilson  11:31  
Like was it we've got a pretty solid family unit. I talked to him every week. My dad is here in there. We're not, we're not very, he has a much better relationship, my brother. But I definitely am connected to my my brother and my mother. I call them once a week FaceTime. My brother live in Scotland. My mum and dad live in Newcastle. So we had a very closest Newcastle Australia. Yeah, we had a very good. We had a very, we had a really solid family unit. Like we always had family dinners together that my parents have like the typical. Again, I had the typical upbringing, other than the fact that I was in a foreign country and Okay, yeah, yeah. Didn't have cousins and other close family

Nick Papastamatis  12:12  
isolated, but you still had plenty of family time. Yeah. 

Scott Wilson  12:15  
And you went to school, went to school in a British army school. So English curriculum was England's curriculum.

Jac Simmonds  12:22  
What do you bring with that upbringing? Was there an option to not be athletic or be an athlete? 

Scott Wilson  12:27  
yeah, there's there was lots of kids who were not gifted. But the kids who were gifted usually were put on a bit of a pedestal. I played soccer, pretty like Well, I was always the captain and this the forward always scoring goals and yeah, I was always always like a big part of my my childhood, but I think back but there were definitely were kids who were not athletic and did did other things. But for me, like, it was a place of pride almost to be like an athletic kid in a in an army background or in an army community. Because again, it's just put on a pedestal athleticism is is fostered. Very well in those sort of environments.

Jac Simmonds  13:14  
Yeah. So it sounds like yeah, the first 13 years of your life, like you said, like athleticism, strength. You know, whatever it might be physical attributes were important to your upbringing. When did sport begin, per se? So you said soccer was your first sport?

Scott Wilson  13:29  
Yeah, so I actually hate sport. Okay, in a weird way. I am a I hate being I love being a participant. that shocks me Yeah. I'm a participant I love I enjoy the physical aspect of sport, but I hate the the social aspects or supporting a team. I don't watch football. Okay, right. Um, I just enjoyed the actual doing of it doing originally Actually, I rollerblade earlier on my brother was I would have been about four Yeah, four or five. In pettibone and my brother and I we raced on roller no like in like aggressive inline skating. So skate parks, flips and grinds and all that sort of stuff. I yeah, the age of four. That was about four. I remember having Katie rollerskating. There's no other choice.

Nick Papastamatis  14:21  
Yes. Got it.

Scott Wilson  14:22  
Well, my brother my brother is four years older than me. So everything my brother did I emulated or copied other than playing soccer. My earliest memories on like weekends, we're going to watch my brother play football. I wouldn't watch football. I would go and play I would go and discover like, I don't know. riverbeds and climb through trees and be like George of the jungle. Really like gymnastics and probably an earlier not formalized form of parkor jumping from one area to another area. That's shooting that's so sick. Hey, it sounds like you've never been able to sit still not I definitely have... Play video games? I do.

Nick Papastamatis  14:58  
I do when I play video games I play sport. Yeah.

Scott Wilson  15:04  
I definitely reckon I would have been if I was born now I'd have ADHD I would have been one of those kids who has like, yeah, this thing. Yeah, this thing that's that is not a thing anymore.

Jac Simmonds  15:15  
Well during this podcast if you need to get up and do a few burpees

Scott Wilson  15:19  
anytime. Netflix. That's crazy. rollerblading, yeah, and I, and skateboarding and I did a little bit skateboarding. That was because it started become cooler. Okay, but skating inline skating was like the big thing when I was a kid, and then it kind of fell out of favor and skateboarding rise, as is definitely grown over the last like, 10-15 years. Yeah. It's now an Olympic sport.

Nick Papastamatis  15:41  
Yeah. Which I think is sick.

Jac Simmonds  15:43  
I think everyone like roughly

Nick Papastamatis  15:44  
just got released now as an olympic sport.

Scott Wilson  15:47  
I think it was the last Olympics. I can't

Jac Simmonds  15:49  
I think roughly everyone our age has gone through skateboarding. Yes, I have. I was an absolute skate demon.

Nick Papastamatis  15:54  
I jumped on. Well, yeah. Yeah,

Scott Wilson  15:57  
I bought a skateboard. 2016 I bought a skateboard. I was skating at like Maryland skate park. Wow. Realize that. Surely, if I wanted to go to Commonwealth Games, I should probably give up on skateboarding because I was taking some pretty hard stacks. Going from being a 50 odd kilo kid to being a 94. Kilo weightlifter. There's a slight difference in time. Yeah, physics. Yes. Yeah.

Jac Simmonds  16:23  
So you're trying to find the next thing then? 

Scott Wilson  16:26  
I was trying to relive my youth. I might i'd spoken to my wife. Where we married? No, we weren't married at times. And my girlfriend time. My wife Christine. And I've been talking about buying a skateboard forever. And we were walking past a skate shop in Redfern going to get some gelato. And she was like you are buying a skateboard right now. So we bought that skateboard. 

Nick Papastamatis  16:46  
That would have, you would have felt like a kid in a candy store. 

Scott Wilson  16:49  
yeah, it was pretty good. It's pretty. It's pretty nice. But again, going going from being a like 50 kilo skater to being a 90 kilo skater, It was a different. a whole different ballgame. Yeah, I still do it. I love it. 

Nick Papastamatis  17:00  
All right,

Scott Wilson  17:01  
Check out my Instagram. 

Nick Papastamatis  17:02  
Oh, you've got it. I've got it on grease the groove

Scott Wilson  17:05  
Yes, that's on grease groove coach 

Nick Papastamatis  17:06  
grease the groove coach. So if you want to check out Scott Wilson while you're listening to this at grease the groove coach Yeah,

Jac Simmonds  17:13  
could you kick flip?

Scott Wilson  17:14  
I could kickflip pop shove it. I was more of a heel flipper than a kickflip because I didn't like also ruining my shoes. 

Jac Simmonds  17:21  
Yeah, because my mom and dad wouldn't like to buy me brand new skate shoes I drove past sometimes it like in this area this the stairs I used to jump down on a skateboard and like my knee hurts.

Scott Wilson  17:30  
Yeah,

Jac Simmonds  17:32  
definitely. stand out. It was once me

Scott Wilson  17:34  
definitely made of rubber bands off the concrete now. I shatter if I hit concrete, we just become a bit more fragile.

Jac Simmonds  17:42  
Where does rugby union fit in?

Scott Wilson  17:44  
So I played soccer all the way until I went back to Scotland. And when I moved back to Scotland since 2006 I hated soccer or football in Scotland. It was terrible. I'd gone from playing on like putting green football fields in Germany the facilities there were exceptional to now playing on fields that you could if you look down hill like you literally like people would like couldn't see half their body because that's how I remember walking onto my first football field and thinking this...

Nick Papastamatis  18:18  
were you playing in the highlands mate? pretty much. basically on a mountain.

Scott Wilson  18:21  
Yes. In a bog religion playing on a bog. Well come on man. And then I've actually played rugby union on that field. And I was able to hit a drop goal from the halfway line. Because that's how much downhill it went...yeah, so rugby union. Started playing rugby union 2008 2007 end 2007 2008. Yep. And...

Nick Papastamatis  18:44  
Germans would have engineered those fields to be exactly measured correctly. Perfectly yet level, they would have had all the tools or the engineering possible. And the Scottish just don't care, wouldn't have cared. Not at all. Like what a difference. Yeah, I've experienced that with cricket. Playing on a good field. I then get the contrast of that when you go back it's

Scott Wilson  19:05  
just can't I honestly I went from Ireland, very good quality football, soccer to really bad soccer and it's just like, I remember just like wanting to pull my hair out there being being a striker. And just standing there and just being no constructed phase of play. I don't know whether you guys watch football, you're relying on the bounce. But yeah, literally boys would just kick the ball up the park and they had to get on the end of it. And that was that was there was no there was no structured play. Well, so it was it was it was bad. Yeah. So so that was the end. Yeah, that was the end of that. I fell in with a group of boys who one of them is boyka Marie Kondo. He plays professional rugby now in England. He was like the main leader of the group sort of thing and yeah, he played rugby. So everyone else was interested in rugby and just gave it a go and loved it. I think my first game for the school I scored three tries. So I guess that kind of Life says something and Murray's dad, who was one of our was a coach of a rugby club, said, Scott, you want to come and play for the club team? And I was like, Yeah, okay, I'll give it a go. So I went back to Murray's house at night and had a nutella, which my first ever Nutella sandwich rememberable. And then yet when I went to West of Scotland, which was a rugby club in Mogae in just outside Glasgow, and I played there for a couple of seasons, got to go to district level rugby, but I had not been in the sport long enough for the people who were in positions of power to know who I was, and never really got selected. And at that time, one of my friends who was a terrible rugby player, was playing for Scotland under 16 Rugby League, and I was like, if he's playing for Scotland, I can play for Scotland. So I played two games of rugby league, and then I got made captain for Scotland. So yeah, that was my Wow, that was like a quick turnaround from going from rugby union to play in rugby league. And at that moment, I really realized the class difference in Scotland that if you play rugby union, I think the same in Australia, you are a top, a top a top, I should say I thought you are you are born with a silver spoon in your mouth. Yeah.

Nick Papastamatis  21:12  
Well, that's the that's the perception. I mean, that's the perception. Yeah, stereotype, isn't it? Well, let's just leave it as that

Jac Simmonds  21:18  
private school game. Yeah.

Scott Wilson  21:20  
Is someone a private school boy at this table?

Nick Papastamatis  21:22  
I'm definitely a private school boy. However... Yeah,

Jac Simmonds  21:25  
I'm a Catholic school boy. So, but I was AFl so say what you want.

Nick Papastamatis  21:29  
I mean, for me, it's for me. I never played rugby union and I've fucking don't enjoy watching rugby union at all.

Scott Wilson  21:36  
it's very slow. It's very boring. Yes.

Nick Papastamatis  21:38  
Too many rules too many technicalities. To me these to me that rugby league just seems a little more simple. And that's why I was drawn to it. So

Scott Wilson  21:45  
I'm assuming.

Nick Papastamatis  21:46  
I just don't know what, how some people would react if they thought of themselves with a silver spoon.

Scott Wilson  21:52  
Yeah. Okay. I apologize if I offended anyone.

Nick Papastamatis  21:54  
No, shut up. We don't apologize for shit.

Scott Wilson  21:59  
Definitely was that in Scotland? Yeah, definitely. And yeah, I got given an opportunity straightaway. And I got to prove myself and I kept them in Scotland at 16. We won the shield that year in Europe. And at the same time, I met a guy called Tony Smith. It was at the time Warrington wolves head coach. And he was coaching the England rugby league under England Knights. I think they were called. And after that competition, I got a phone call saying Would you like to go and play professional ball like Academy level rugby in England. And I was I was moved for Warrington wolves. Yeah. So a bit bit bit hand off for the opportunity. Yeah. And then that led me down the path of playing which is a Super League, a super league club. Yes. Like the NRL

Jac Simmonds  22:42  
Yeah. So when you started at Warrington wolves, what was what was that process? Like? What was the was the expectations or that were different? or How did you find that sort of experience early on?

Scott Wilson  22:52  
So initially, it was just like a phone call. Just to get to know me sort of thing. They spoke to my parents, and then kind of the there was a bit of like a wedging off like they kind of try to separate me from my parents and not try to have my parents as involved anymore. I think that makes it simpler for them to get rid of you eventually, which they did. But yeah, I went down as my birthday weekend. Get rid of you as an athlete every minutes athlete Yes. So 2000 and September 2009. I went down to Warrington just to do a little like trial, see the facilities meet the coaches and just get to see that the the environment they had there was amazing. And then the about three months later, they said to me during that time, I need to get bigger. Three months later, I went down from my first training experience with them. So we did a training session on the field, in the gym. And and then it was like the coldest winter we've had in years and the fields froze over. So we did another training session in the gym and turned out that I was a much stronger and more powerful athlete than many of the guys in the academy. They're like their top players, but they still said look, you need to get bigger, and they were they would not bring me down until I got bigger. So this was December 2009. And they never communicated with me until about April of 2010 rush as a young athlete who's been hand had carrot dangled in front of them it's pretty hard hard thing to do but I pretty self motivated.

Jac Simmonds  24:14  
Were you small at this time?

Scott Wilson  24:16  
Yeah, I was. I was like, I was like 67 kilos.

Jac Simmonds  24:20  
At what age? 

Scott Wilson  24:21  
This was just about 16

Nick Papastamatis  24:23  
Yeah, and then how tall were you at 16?

Scott Wilson  24:25  
I can't tell you my height I was not much taller than I am now.

Jac Simmonds  24:28  
Yeah right.

Scott Wilson  24:29  
I was probably like five eight you want not much taller than your you've gotten shorter? sorry. I was a lot shorter than I am now, maybe from all the weightlifting I have shrunk a little we put on..

Jac Simmonds  24:43  
all this weight and we want you to shrink.

Scott Wilson  24:44  
Yeah. Yeah, they basically were like getting bigger. And I did that. My my uncle was a bodybuilder. And I just remember reading Arnold's encyclopedia of bodybuilding. Yeah. And one of the things one of the things, the guy who's the head of youth said you need to get bigger shoulders. So I trained shoulders four days a week. You know, I had the world's biggest shoulders but no chest. Yeah. I still do that those early days are pretty important.

Nick Papastamatis  25:10  
Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Jac Simmonds  25:11  
So was that your first introduction to weight training?

Scott Wilson  25:14  
Yeah, it was I didn't know what the right and no idea they were meant to send me up. There was a strength conditioning coach at Warrington, they're meant to come up to Glasgow because his girlfriend lived there. And was meant to do a strength conditioning session with me and never bothered to ask, but I put close to 30 over 30 kilos on I got from just I was just under 100 kilos when I went back down in the July of 2010.

Jac Simmonds  25:35  
So what sort of timeframes?

Scott Wilson  25:36  
So September, I kind of ran about the September started making a conscious effort to eat better September 2009 to June or July of 2000. 

Nick Papastamatis  25:47  
In less than a year. Yeah. Put on 30 kilos?

Scott Wilson  25:51  
ripe age being 16. Now I wasn't that fat, I was pretty good. 

Nick Papastamatis  25:56  
Your bodies ripe of all the hormones.

Scott Wilson  25:58  
Yeah. 30 kgs. And all of it. I was I basically stopped going to school during that time gave up on school. Yeah, my sole focus was rugby. My attendance in school was less than 50%. And they tried to kick me out. Yeah. And eventually what they did is just give me gym periods. So on a Monday, Wednesday, Friday,

Jac Simmonds  26:15  
they would have forgotten what you look like.

Nick Papastamatis  26:18  
We had school, we had this guy, his name was Albert. And he would he I don't think his immune system was very good. This guy was at was at home sick more often than he was actually at school. So we got the we got the nickname the new kid. So whenever we saw him, and he answer albot and they said, here. And we look, we look back. We just laugh. Ah the new kids here. So you were the new kid?

Scott Wilson  26:48  
I was the new kid. The new kid.

Jac Simmonds  26:49  
30 kgs on him. Yeah.

Scott Wilson  26:50  
So yeah, that that, that that eventually, eventually evangelized into a game and my immediate dropping of from Warrington, they never contacted me again. Really? Yeah. So it was a it was that was pretty challenging to be again have that carrot dangled in front of you and then to have it pretty snatched away. Yeah, without without it being too much my fault. I'd done what they asked, but they hadn't really given me the guidance I needed.

Jac Simmonds  27:22  
Yeah, I think it's pretty common story. Like, actually someone else we had on the podcast, Alessio, who was professional baseball, the same sort of story like his potential probably wasn't wasn't realized. Due to no no fault of his own. Yeah. More so just based off like expectations, or the perceived expectations of what he what he what they thought he should be. Yeah, versus what he actually was. It sounds like it's pretty similar to you like, yeah, you came in with quite a bit of talent and, you know, some potential but then, you know, they try Chuck 30 kilos on you. And they're probably not seeing like what you actually are as a player. Yeah, yeah.

Scott Wilson  27:57  
Yeah, it was, uh, yeah, definitely, definitely. Definitely. Definitely had the potential there. But just not having the right people in my corner definitely led to me not being successful. Yeah. And if they invest a little bit more time, perhaps maybe something better would have come out of it. Yeah. But the following year, I was able to get my revenge almost. through that experience and bitter heart ache and been a bit a bit upset. I lost about 10 kilos and started really like delving into like strength conditioning. So I found guys like Joe DeFranco was guy called Joe Hashi on on youtube to watch their videos and just started doing more... Joe DeFranco garage gym, gosh, me I just started doing more strength and conditioning style training. So less bodybuilding more more more traditional strength conditioning. So one of my sessions turned from like doing leg extensions back squats and leg press to now doing a dynamic warm up. Yeah, back squats and plyometrics gotcha. So I went to more of like an athletic style training. Yeah, and got a second opportunity with Salford city reds. I played for that under 18 and under 20s and yeah got revenge in the sense where I got to play for got to play against Warrington wolves again and scored a try shot my opposite man out on a couple of like golden opportunities they had. Yeah, and yeah, just got to go to one up them essentially. In my in my books. Bit of a fuck yeah. Bit of a Fuck you.

Jac Simmonds  29:32  
I love that. That's good, man. So when did rugby league finish them?

Scott Wilson  29:36  
So my parents moved to Australia in 2012. My dad works in the Hunter Valley in the mines used to work he actually got made redundant last week. sucks for him. It's a bad time of the year for the economy. He Yeah, so my parents come to Australia. I got another I did have another opportunity to go back down to Warren to Salford but I thought better of it, going to Salford and not earning much money and having to get a job and try to support myself versus moving to Australia. So a fresh start essentially a new journey, a new experience. And yet, I decided, I'm going to come to Australia. So I contacted a few rugby clubs and a couple of them said they're interested. So yeah, end up coming over and playing for Maitland pickers played two preseason games. And then I had to bow out of competition that year, because I had a bit of a bad knee, which turned out to not be too much. But I had a very bad advice from a physio who sent me to go get an arthroscope on a knee that probably didn't need it.

Nick Papastamatis  30:45  
And that makes the blood boil a little, doesn't it?

Jac Simmonds  30:47  
Yeah, we can talk about this before like, actually, I mentioned a mate of mine is actually doing his PhD on this this exact thing like low value care and in musculoskeletal, you know, therapy, or medicine or whatever. And yet the arthroscopes were right at the top of that list in terms of unnecessary expenses. And I've definitely had some unnecessary scopes. And I think it's like, every time you get cut open, there's surgical trauma or getting cut open has its has its own thing. Like consequences, you know, so yeah, that must have been frustrating man.

Scott Wilson  31:23  
Yeah, definitely. So I got the scope. And during my time playing rugby league, this is 2010, yet ended 2010. I was in college, and I got introduced to CrossFit. I never really did it, because rugby was still the focus. So I did a few wards and checked out a CrossFit gym. And then I went back to rugby. And then after my arthroscope, I'd been like really like, I'd been part of CrossFit Glasgow's community at the end of my season before I came to Australia. So end of 2011. And beginning 2012 was I'd gotten to crossfit Glasgow, I did the open that year. And again, my knee was sore. And then I came to Australia, and then eventually had the scope. And I really decided, you know what, I don't want to be a rugby player anymore. I'm not going to make the NRL I'm not going to be playing at a high enough level, which will satisfy me, let me go and try something new. And I went, you know, I'm gonna be a CrossFit Games athlete, like everyone who does crossfit.

Jac Simmonds  32:17  
it's funny, like a lot of ex athletes end up going CrossFit after after it. 

Nick Papastamatis  32:21  
I don't think I've ever met anyone that's done CrossFit at a at a decent enough level, not necessarily the top four, who's done something else before? Yeah. And has natural, natural gifts. Yeah, for lack of a better term it is. I think, I think crossfit requires a large, a large variety of different skills, it also requires a very, very diverse fundamental of strength. So you've got to be strong in a lot of different ways. And then you've your ability to acquire skill needs to also be good. So you need to be in sports that so people that have done gymnastics in the past where they've had to learn very highly complex skills, then get to apply that skill acquisition and that suppose that process of learning to CrossFit, but then you can't really be a great gymnast without having a really good strong foundation of strength. So that in a sense, you can train to do CrossFit the same way that gymnast trained to do gymnastics. It's just you need a good foundation of strength. And then you can build the skill after that.

Jac Simmonds  33:26  
Plus, it allows for daily competitiveness as well.

Nick Papastamatis  33:29  
Well, that's right. So I think I think to answer your question, Jaco, it's more the reason why I think people with previous sport get involved is because they've got the foundation of strength already. And then all they need to do is build skill on top. 

Jac Simmonds  33:41  
Gotcha.

Scott Wilson  33:42  
Yeah, definitely. So yeah,

Nick Papastamatis  33:44  
what do you agree with that?

Scott Wilson  33:45  
Yeah, definitely. I was when it came to CrossFit. I could. So when I first got into CrossFit, I watched a video, Reebok ad with Blair Morrison, and you can go look it up on YouTube, and he's there doing muscle ups my rings on a tree, and I literally remember having the epiphany I looked at my window in Scotland, I saw a tree and I'm like, I can hang on that. Alright, so I bought a set of rings. And I remember my brother came home from Asda, which is like Coles is a it was a trolley pusher trolley put away. And he's like, What the fuck are you doing? And I'm like, come on, watch this. So I showed him all these videos on YouTube. And again, they want they want to get in the rings. I could do muscle ups. No problem. It wasn't it wasn't wasn't a thing. I could already do bar muscle ups on a Olympic weightlifting bar in a squat rack. So doing muscle ups in a ring was like was way easier

Nick Papastamatis  34:37  
you can't be too You can't be like if you're doing that. Yeah, you hang the barbell up. You can't wobble that too much. Because you literally fall out you just flick the barbell out. Yeah.

Scott Wilson  34:49  
Yeah, got the rings.

Nick Papastamatis  34:50  
Which tells me you've your skill. You just have to watch something.

Scott Wilson  34:53  
Yes. And you've got got the muscle ups and I bought a 32` kilo kettlebell didn't have to  it. Trying to swing it overhead Probably almost took my head off a few times. And then yeah, then went to crossfit gym and just kind of started feeling out. And then ..crossfit Glasgow, was actually called, client CrossFit was another CrossFit gym client CrossFit. And after my season with Salford, I went and joined the gym, and within a week I was coaching CrossFit, which tells you a lot about the coaching...

Nick Papastamatis  35:20  
first, Coach first week,

Jac Simmonds  35:24  
first time touching rings - muscle up.

Scott Wilson  35:25  
Yes. tells you a lot about the owner who did not really care about its members. He was happy to..

Nick Papastamatis  35:30  
I think it says more about your natural capabilities. Yeah, yeah. Yeah,

Jac Simmonds  35:34  
it sounds like it sounds like you get pissed off if you can't do something. Yeah,

Scott Wilson  35:38  
yeah, definitely. So

Nick Papastamatis  35:41  
yeah, for someone that probably gets used to that. That would be that would be quite frustrating if you can't do something.

Scott Wilson  35:47  
Yeah, well, weightlifting was my frustrating thing at crossfit. So I could my first time ever snatch 90 kilos. So bodyweight, but clean and jerks. I had no ability to clean it whatsoever. rattle it up. Yeah. So it's basically like a muscle power bicep curl. Yeah, and my jerk was atrocious. So I finished them. I've got the arthroscope in November 2019 2019 Jesus 2012 and then I was working in the mines during that time I quit the job in mines and said I want to really go in this CrossFit thing found across the gym got a job. And just so happened there was a weightlifting coach at this at this gym, you know, just a series of unfortunate fortunate events. And I said you know what, I can do all the conditioning stuff I can do wods my FRAN time is 246 or whatever it was at the time. But my barbell competency is atrocious. I need to become a better weightlifter. I need to move the barbell and giving what was happening at regionals, the weights were getting heavier. The barbells were getting heavy. I really needed to bring that up. So yeah, found this way the coach would Danko pay. didn't do any cross it during that time just really focused on weightlifting. went to New South Wales state championships 194 kilo class, snatch 120, tore cut slightly tore my lat or something or something in my life, SCAP region, and still clean and jerks and still hit a PR and still won. And then went to Nationals. And and during that time, Dan, had some things happened in his own personal life, which meant that he could no longer coach me and kind of lost my way. And you know what, fuck it. I'm gonna go back to CrossFit because that was always the original plan. But I was in line to qualify for the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow in 2014. But without that guidance, and without that clear like, path, I kind of lost my way and went, you know, I'll go back to CrossFit because it's kind of what I know.

Jac Simmonds  37:48  
Yeah. There might have been a little missed opportunity there?

Scott Wilson  37:51  
definitely that's that's like, I have very few regrets in my life. And that's probably one of them. Well, not pushing weightlifting more at that time, not pushing weights. And if I if I just had the right people, I think and the right persons and had the right mental attitude, I think I could have went to the 2014 Commonwealth Games, and then the 2018 Commonwealth Games would have been more of a not going to get the experience and not going to get the T shirt, but more actually about trying to compete. You're trying to try and to get top five. Okay. Yeah.

Jac Simmonds  38:21  
It sounds like you're more confident in that than you were. Because there was obviously parallels to your rugby league as well. Yeah. You had some opportunity there. That probably wasn't seen as well. Yeah. But it sounds like you're probably a bit more confident with your weightlifting...

Nick Papastamatis  38:32  
and seeing another coach and another coach letting you down? Yeah.

Scott Wilson  38:37  
It's definitely a theme. And so I finished that that year. I did the CrossFit open 2014. And I just destroyed my body. I'd went Yeah, just just really, it was more it was more me to be honest than anything. I'd went from just doing just weightlifting. to then do weightlifting, plus CrossFit, and then came around about the new year period. And I'd been speaking to the guys that what was what was CrossFit GCS and CrossFit creature and been doing the crossfit Invictus program. I realized I wasn't fit enough so I start doing cardio and I

Nick Papastamatis  39:10  
Yeh with a 2:40 FRAN Yeah, not fit enough man actually, at the top level.

Scott Wilson  39:17  
It really isn't. It's not I had to I had to get fitter.

Nick Papastamatis  39:20  
I think what's the record? I think 1:53

Scott Wilson  39:22  
below 2. it's out of control

Jac Simmonds  39:24  
With CrossFit because CrossFit, I see a lot of it is like you have to be a generalist in many areas did that did that frustrate you is that what pushed you towards weightlifting where you could sort of specialize in

Scott Wilson  39:33  
no no the weightlifting was my weakness like I was I was I was good at the WODs like because that because of that that aerobic base from rugby, I could do the burpees and all the other shit the after doing CrossFit. I could do muscle ups I could I could I did I can I did 30 muscle ups I think it was like two minutes 30 was my time like to do 30 muscle ups when I remember that first tested that across the Glasgow and everyone was like, Oh shit, yeah. But then the year off because of not playing footy because of my knee, and then having the arthroscope and then focusing on weightlifting for almost a whole year, my aerobic base had eroded and I no longer had that aerobic capacity. So going back into CrossFit with the mentality that I'm actually a really fit and gymnastics sort of guide and now my barbells better. It actually turned that no, I'm actually a better barbell lifter and not so much a fit in like bodyweight slash gymnasts sort of guy. So I changed my my competency flipped it was now I was a weightlifter not a CrossFit guy.

Nick Papastamatis  40:32  
Yeah. And so with your weightlifting, I know that. So that's from 2014 onwards. Yep. Was that was your focus? 

Scott Wilson  40:41  
Yeah, that was just my focus. So I went and did stupidly after the opener when did the single grid league or npfl combines in America, thinking I'm going to become a CrossFit professional athlete sort of thing for these teams and wastes a lot of time and energy and money going to America. That just never evangelized.

Nick Papastamatis  41:00  
that grid league? So it's amazing. Yeah, yeah. I thought that I thought the concept of the grid link, do you remember that? You know, the great thing. So the grid league is basically the Yeah, the npfl. Or as they as the they called it, they wanted to create a league. And it wasn't CrossFit. They wanted to compete with CrossFit. They thought they had a better idea. They wanted to create a week on week League of specific teams that would go in and compete with each other, just like the NRL or any other League, they afl whatever, whatever league we're talking about, and they'd be weekly competition, and you'd sub in sub out, depending on what the workouts were going to be for that week. Right. And you'd you'd that all the teams would compete against each other. It's gonna be televised.

Scott Wilson  41:43  
Yeah, it was it was on NBC. In America.

Nick Papastamatis  41:47  
Yeah. And so they put a lot of money into it, but they, they were paying athletes, and it was a way for these, these poor ass CrossFit athletes.

Scott Wilson  41:58  
To actually live that athlete dream, essentially,

Nick Papastamatis  42:00  
yeah, it

Scott Wilson  42:01  
was another opportunity for me.

Nick Papastamatis  42:02  
Yes. And I don't think it was I don't think it was

Jac Simmonds  42:05  
 they were gonna pay it. They were paying a livable salary.

Scott Wilson  42:07  
Not

Nick Papastamatis  42:09  
Enough, enough enough to work. Most most of the teams were paying for like a house for athletes to live. But of course, like, it's, you know, isn't enough to make a professional play like a career out of it. But it was enough back then to get paid to do something that you just enjoyed doing as a as a sports show. And it was also at that time, I don't know if I didn't consider it silly at all. Like

Scott Wilson  42:33  
I took it completely serious. Yeah,

Nick Papastamatis  42:35  
A lot of people were taken seriously because they all saw that there was potential in this in this mpfl or greed league taking off. Yeah. It just didn't, just like....

Scott Wilson  42:46  
many things. They had good intentions. They just they put a lot they put up with cross. Yeah. They put a lot of money into something that they hadn't really thought of like the plan for it wasn't it wasn't really well outlined. That was an idea, which was a good idea. It just was poorly executed.

Nick Papastamatis  43:03  
I think so. And they tried to grow too quick, too quickly. Yeah. Whereas crossfits founder foundations were actually really slow.

Scott Wilson  43:12  
Garage gyms, that sort of thing. When did you go?

Jac Simmonds  43:14  
When did you go all in with weightlifting?

Scott Wilson  43:15  
I finished the 2014. Open and I was destroyed. I had an under grid league sort of stuff I had de quveins tenosynovitis, yeah, that's equivalent to basically a Mars bar in my forearm. inflammation. I literally couldn't bend my wrists. I ended up getting two cortisone injections for that. And that was when I just went over to America to do the first grid league, combined thing. And I came back and then I went back over to the Vegas one which was like the big like qualification you get selected for a team if you do well, and was told Yeah, you don't have enough of social media following we're not interested. And then, despite being better than a lot of the other athletes were there, but they had big social media followings. And then came home and I remember I was like, right, I'm gonna give myself the rest of the week office for Thursday and on Monday, I'm gonna begin my preparation for the 2015 regionals. And basically, on the Monday I tried to step underneath the bar and put on my back and I couldn't like, just had no shoulder extension, my shoulder was frozen and I literally put the bar on my back and threw it off my brand new $800 Penley Glen Penley bar. Christine's like What's wrong? And I'm like, I don't know. So it turned out I had intersection syndrome. And yeah, my shoulder was pretty badly beat up. And I was just...

on the same side as the lat issue?

the opposite side. same side of the de quveins. Oh, so yeah, I just I just like my body was just in shutdown. Mentally I was drained from competing and training and working in a negative environment. My work at the time wasn't the best. I wasn't looking after myself, I wasn't doing the things to take care of myself, I wasn't eating well wasn't sleeping well. So I stopped training, I started meditating, I started eating better, I focused on getting sleep. And within about two and a half, three months, my body was good again. And that was when I really made made the commitment. You know what I've missed out on a massive opportunity to go to Commonwealth Games. It was a home games, it was in front of would have been in front of my family. My grandma and granddad could have come and see me it was good in Glasgow, but I didn't, didn't take didn't take advantage of that opportunity. And that was that that was like, at the end of the year. That was like my big realization. I was like, You know what, like, you had an opportunity you didn't you didn't take it. So you've got another Commonwealth Games coming up in technically a home games now that you live in Australia, you are going there is nothing you are not going to do to go and that was on my whole So focus as an athlete became on weightlifting. 

Wow. And this is this is what I find fascinating, right? Like when you're a 16 year old playing for Warrington, wolves....

Yeah.

Nick Papastamatis  46:10  
Did you like at at no point would i would you probably fathom that you are going to be competing for Scotland in weightlifting at the Commonwealth Games? Probably not. And and I find that this journey for athletes. So what is it about weightlifting that you really enjoy? Like what's kept you there?

Scott Wilson  46:28  
every sport I've ever played up until that point other than crossfit was a team sport, where you depend on other people and you are responsible for your successes is built on the back of other people. Now you can be a Cristiano Ronaldo, but if you're playing for fucking Sydney Swans, and you're playing against Real Madrid, you're still gonna get pumped. It doesn't matter.

Nick Papastamatis  46:47  
And if you play for the Sydney Swans versing Real Madrid, you're playinhg different sports. But I know what you're talking. Yeah.

Scott Wilson  46:56  
So despite being a talented athlete, my success was too dependent on other people. And weightlifting was a sport that, yeah, you need a coach and you need someone there to guide you and count the board for you. But it's you make the lifter you don't that's it? There's no there's, it's it's very cut and dry. It's very black and white. There's no, there's no subjectivity to it. And again, there's very little dependence on other people. And as you've heard through my story, so far, I have been let down by people. Not Not Not because it's their fault. But they just weren't equipped with the tools, others to make me yet to make me live up to my potential. And they had their own lives and their own things to go on about. And I don't hold any bitter, bitter bitterness or resentment towards them, but had though they been more aware. And had they known they could have made me more than what I was. So that was why the Commonwealth Games was so important to me. 2018. And when you say like, what sort of things were you relying on your coach for? guidance, yearly guidance, like?

Nick Papastamatis  48:03  
And what do you think guided you to do? What? Like something really, like even even for the basic things, right? Like, yeah,

Scott Wilson  48:10  
like, it's like, if you've never, I've never been in weightlifting. I'd never been to a weights competition. I know, never been involved with the sport. And my first coach Dan did a really good job, despite me Never seen your ways in competition and never been involved in one in preparing before the actual in process of going through with competition. But there are things that you have to do when you are part of the sport, there are people that you need to know and names you need to remember and all these other things that you just go into the like the daily running of a sport that you need to be aware of. And if you're not, then you're out, you're out of the loop, you're at a disadvantage. Like, if you had like, yeah, if you have people on the inside who know what's happening, you are more likely to be successful. Yeah.

Jac Simmonds  48:55  
It's a bit of who you know by the sounds of it.

Scott Wilson  48:56  
Yeah. Not Not Not it's not it's not who you know, and weightlifting in sense. where like, if you're the best lifter, you're the best lifter. Sure. But if you don't know the sport, you don't know the sport. You don't know what competition to go to. You don't know how to qualify for competition.

Jac Simmonds  49:07  
Yeah, get the exposure out of the events, you know. Yeah, and things like that. 

Nick Papastamatis  49:11  
Like, I definitely believe that one of the paths of getting to the top of your game is to understand the game.

Scott Wilson  49:17  
Yeah. The game.

Nick Papastamatis  49:18  
Yeah. Yes. And going to the right competitions is one thing going knowing which competitions to not go to, for you and which coach not to go with your coach to go with Yeah,

Scott Wilson  49:31  
there are definitely things that can hamstring you and hold you back. If you make the wrong decision. Most definitely. And I'm not saying I made the wrong decision in the past, but I was just naive.

Nick Papastamatis  49:41  
Well weightlifting in Australia is extremely political, we won't get into that. But

Scott Wilson  49:45  
yeah, luckily I've lift for Scotland. So

Nick Papastamatis  49:47  
yes, yeah. Well, that's right. Yeah. And you're a long way away. Yeah. And which is one step removed, which is nice. Yeah.

Jac Simmonds  49:53  
Did you in your prep for the com games. Were there many setbacks?

Scott Wilson  49:56  
Yeah, well, so 2014 obviously horror of a year didn't make regionals. My sense of self was very, very bruised. I decided to move to Sydney in 2015. That's actually when I met Nick. I moved in my wife. Did you move down for me? I did not move down for you, down to live in my wife and to actually get away from that, like negative work environment in Newcastle was working across the gym, and I decided to reinvent myself as a weightlifting coach. So I took a job at lift Performance Center as the like the head of weightlifting there, and really just made weightlifting my passion. In terms of setbacks, I won nationals that year, which was not in my plan. My plan was to win nationals in 2016. qualify for Commonwealth Games in 2017 compete in 2018. So 2015 was like a leap, like a springboard year like I had it. Yeah. So I want I want to have schedule. And then what do you do? Like you've done all these things to get you to that level? So 2015 I meditated every day I ate well, I saw Nick, every week or every second week, for the whole first part of the year. I tried to foster an environment and a mentality with really positivity, and just really like nailed all my things. I got a coach for a little bit of that year, mostly coach myself throughout my career, but I had a coach for a little bit of that year. And yeah, I just let them know. That was Steven sickness on socks. So I worked with Steve between, I think it was like, I remember Yeah, it was April in June or something like that, for like, three months because he was off work from TAFE. He was taking his long service leave. And he was available during the day. A one Nash, one New South Wales championships and then went to nationals and one and it just wasn't that wasn't in the pan, and all the things that I had done in 2015, to make me successful and win the Nationals early, I basically abandoned and just destroyed myself in the last couple months of the year. I just stopped meditating. I stopped being mindful of my nutrition, and just went full blast on trying to be a big fat weightlifter and get destroyed myself, because that's what I thought I needed. Just was everything that worked. I bend. So 2016 i'd hurt my wrist. And sorry, 2015 I hurt my wrist. I was doing a I think a 137 snatch and training and I felt my wrist like bend and pop suddenly my wrist pop. And yeah, it wasn't good. And after that, I didn't really snatch much for the rest of the year. I went to Japan, I came back. And then that was when I really start training again hard and wrapped my wrist and just went on with it. And that's when my shoulder got bad. I ended up getting a bit of a light not a leap blaming the system a labor. And Nick and I made the decision for me not to compete that year. Because again, knowing the sport...

Nick Papastamatis  52:51  
Yeah. And it was also unstable. It was just that. That was it. I remember that conversation.

Scott Wilson  52:58  
It was it was a hard conversation to have. But it was the right conversation because Nick and I both knew that 2016 was not important. I could not qualify for the Commonwealth Games in 2016. But I could qualify for it in 2017. So by not competing in 2016 Yes, I was missing on valuable experience. But I wasn't putting wear and tear on my body which was unnecessary. 

Jac Simmonds  53:18  
How did that How did that feel for you hearing that from Nick. Like, were you on the same page?

Scott Wilson  53:22  
Yeah, I was appreciative because it was a thought that I was having in my mind, but I didn't have the commitment to follow through with it and having someone give me that right guidance and advice at that right time. led to me going on a path that eventually led to me qualifying for commonwealth games. Yeah, if I had just pursued weightlifting, I know that I would not have been it.

Nick Papastamatis  53:42  
sounds like there was a lot of trust already built. The way I generally go about things in a suppose an insight into how I manage the athlete is if there is bad news to be given. I generally hold off until it's like the writing's on the wall. Yeah, and the athlete has seen me trial and error and in a very logical and progressive way. Try something it I'll try something it failed try something and and basically remove myself from being the fixer, but more so the scientists and it's usually a four to six week process of the athlete and not like basically at the beginning. I'm optimistic. But then every week that goes by with is no change generally just reduces my optimism. but so does this. And when they when when the athlete can see the logical progression and the logical essentially, like the failure of the of the work being done, where we're working together. It's not just me fixing or treating or needling or whatever. It's like we're rehabbing. We're like what it is we're doing everything. Yeah. And, and so, but then they're sort of like on, it's like still there. It's like I still can't snatch I still can't catch the bar. And usually it's like well, okay, I think it would have been a 12 to 14 weeks out. Usually is a good time to call it. Yeah. And at that point, it's like, well, prep prep, real prep starts 12 weeks out. And that's when the conversation naturally enters. It's like, well, how far out are we?

Jac Simmonds  55:17  
yeah. And what was the alternative, you gotta get like a cortisone shot, and then go and compete. And then next year's jeopardized, ya

Scott Wilson  55:24  
Yep.

Nick Papastamatis  55:24  
this is where this is where chiro's and physios that want to get involved with sport people, they've got to be actually you got to step into the coaching role, you got to step into that coaching role, because that coaching role is not me telling him, it's actually together, we've worked through this, we're both on the same page. And we've both come to the same realization. Generally speaking out, I think I've ever been on a different page than my athlete, when it comes to a tough decision. That tough decision is almost always a slow process. And it's not a forced one. And it's not my decision in the end anyway.

Jac Simmonds  56:05  
And the thing is, as well, like someone at Scott's level, or you know, any, any high level athlete has a certain level of like intuition with their body anyway. And you're gonna know when it's time to pull the plug. 

Scott Wilson  56:15  
Yeah, we were talking about this in treatment the other day, like I left the room last week, and instinctively knew that we had hit gold. Yeah, I've got a bit of a knee issue right now, which has been going on for a little while. But I got off the table last week. And I was confident that we had made big, big leap forward. And I knew in 2016, that I was not going to be able to do what I had done the year before. And my performance was going to be worse, if not, like considerably worse. And who wants to do that? Who wants to go backwards? So making the decision to not compete was definitely the right decision.

Nick Papastamatis  56:52  
That would have been 12 weeks of that of that lead up? Yeah. Plus, who knows how long you would have needed off? Yeah, or post comp sounds like and then dealing with the aftermath of that injury would have taken even longer. So really, actually would have put you six months back at least on your com games qualification.

Jac Simmonds  57:09  
Yeah, yeah. dislocation and yeah,

Nick Papastamatis  57:12  
it was risk versus benefit. Haha.

Scott Wilson  57:14  
It was not good. No, it was definitely not good. 

Nick Papastamatis  57:16  
And although although it was borderline, yeah. And it was like, you were you were, like,

Scott Wilson  57:21  
we were we made the decision at the last moment. And essentially, it was like, right, okay. It's just, we've given it as much time as we can. It's just not gonna happen. Unfortunately.

Nick Papastamatis  57:30  
Like, something's obvious. It's like, Oh, yeah, you've completely ripped the shit out of your shoulder.

Jac Simmonds  57:35  
Yeah, like,

Nick Papastamatis  57:36  
let's just stop now. Yeah, it wasn't that type of decision. It was like, that cyst has probably been there.

Jac Simmonds  57:41  
Well, if it was the comm games, what have you done something different?

Scott Wilson  57:43  
If it was comm games I would have played through.

Nick Papastamatis  57:47  
And I know it would be like, yeah, Scott...

Scott Wilson  57:51  
You got to man up. 

Nick Papastamatis  57:51  
Let's do it. Yes. Or? Well, I would be I would be telling myself to shut up. Yeah. Stop being the scientist. Yeah. Start being the supporter.

Jac Simmonds  57:57  
Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah. Willing to deal with the aftermath of that.

Scott Wilson  58:03  
Iwould have Yeah, would have would have accepted any sort of risk if it had been for the Commonwealth Games. And we did try even train through an injury going into the Commonwealth Games. Yeah. I went in, not in 100% physical condition. So yeah, try to try to paint the picture again. 2016 was like just a really bad year. But I took the year off. And then the following year was like the real important year when I had to qualify for the Commonwealth Games. So I didn't I didn't compete at all throughout 2016. And then 2000. It was just it was just basic rehab. Rehab the whole year. So the shot Yeah, for the shoulder and the wrist. The wrist was still underlyinhg issue. So was it This was the unstable lateral...

Jac Simmonds  58:50  
He was a bodybuilder on Facebook wasn't he?

Scott Wilson  58:52  
nah what's the what's the instability? Scapholunate. Yeah. So yeah, is it yet? dizzy busy? I don't know. Yeah. I got carpal instability. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

So 2016 came when, again, I was not working in an environment that was very positive. And and sounds like a bit of a common theme that if I'm in a very negative environment, it leads to ongoing issues in my body. But there was also work, I will not just put the shit on those people because they might listen to this. I had to do work on myself and eventually did do that work after the comonwealth game. So I am aware of my own faults as a human being. But yeah, 2000 said,

Nick Papastamatis  59:34  
that was very correctly said.

Scott Wilson  59:35  
At the end. 2016 we rehabbed my shoulder It was kind of good, but wasn't 100% and I started working with a guy called Lester Hoe in Melbourne. He's the training geek. The first thing there is to learn the first online weightlifting coach Yes, and now all of those fucking old dinosaur weights and coaches used to talk shit about Lester for coaching online. can suck a dick Now they're all coaching online. Are they? Yeah, cuz the struggle is over COVID Yeah. So yeah, what now?

Nick Papastamatis  59:48  
They are dinosaurs hey.

Scott Wilson  1:00:07  
yeah, so I worked with Lester and things were going well, but again, I, I was putting trust in someone and I did trust Lester and I got a lot of respect for less than but I just didn't feel like he understood me, as well as I understood myself. So after the new year in 2017, I cut it off with Lester. I also quit my job as a high paid, well paid, salaried weightlifting coach in the west of Sydney to open up my own business. And I decided that that was the year I was also going to ask my wife to marry me. And I was trying to qualify for golf games. So yeah, it wasn't. It was Yeah, it was a pretty, it was Yeah, a pivotal moment in my life. So after I'd put my resignation in my job, I went to Japan. And while I was in Japan, I basically fucking everyday did gymnastics bodies risk preparation work, because I'd started doing this in the new year before the new year, I should say, and it made a bit of a difference, because I was still have a look at the wrist issue. So it's just gymnastics bodies. It's an online gymnastics training program. They've got just like a handstand wrist preparation stuff. So it's like fingertip push ups wrist stretches, all this different stuff. So basically, I'll just...

Nick Papastamatis  1:01:27  
let's put it this way. This program is long, arduous,

Scott Wilson  1:01:33  
boring as fuck, boring as fuck.

Nick Papastamatis  1:01:35  
difficult. Yeah. Gymnastics training. Okay, for adults to build tolerance through the wrist.

Jac Simmonds  1:01:42  
Yeah, basically.

Nick Papastamatis  1:01:43  
Basically, it's highly traditional. Yeah, but they, but it's a little bit tailored to adults. But really, but really the people that are meant to succeed out of it are the children.

Scott Wilson  1:01:52  
Yeah, yeah. But it works me every day.

Nick Papastamatis  1:01:56  
Well, someone with your discipline?

Scott Wilson  1:01:57  
Yeah, of course, because you're gonna do it every day. While I was in Japan, like from day one, I did my wrist prep work. And at the same time, while at the end of last 2016, I'd been introduced to a guy called Julien Pineau, and strong fit. And while I was while I was in, was in Japan, really he was he was just it just came to Australia to do another seminar and I missed him, which I was really upset about. But he posts up videos called the bicep oblique shoulder opener and talked about how like internal torque and engaging of the PEC and the lat will create stability overhead. And funnily enough Kurtzen Teo who was a weightlifting coach, who I'd worked with slightly at the end of 2014. He had spoken about this exact thing, but Kurtzen is Malaysian and worked with Chinese weightlifting coaches, and didn't have the vocabulary to explain it very well to me when Julien It was like inception. Although Julien Julien's English isn't exact Yeah, that's the funny Kurtzen implanted the idea in my brain, and Lester also touched on it slightly, but then Julien like really made the the thing clear,

Nick Papastamatis  1:03:00  
Julien expresses the way Julien expresses it is in a very visual and artistic way so that you can almost see it. 

Scott Wilson  1:03:10  
So his whole thing is like, if you throw a punch, your thumb turns inwards, which is internal torque, if you throw a punch outwards, which is external rotation, external torque, it doesn't feel right. What do we what do what do weightlifting coaches and CrossFit coaches tell their athletes do all the time externally rotate from the shoulder? Yeah, that's what I'd been taught. Well, why'd I always have shoulder issues. Okay.

Nick Papastamatis  1:03:31  
And that's the Kelly Staerrett.

Scott Wilson  1:03:34  
Yeah, that will that said,

Nick Papastamatis  1:03:36  
I really respect Kelly and, and I think that he's, I think that he's got a lot of value. I just think that

Scott Wilson  1:03:41  
there's certain things he's so fucking wrong on,

Nick Papastamatis  1:03:43  
he's not he's not a weightlifter.

Jac Simmonds  1:03:45  
Yeah, this is getting a little bit nerdy, but like the internal torque is that I mean, pec and lat thing internal rotators.

Nick Papastamatis  1:03:51  
Yes. Not rotation. It's torque.

Jac Simmonds  1:03:54  
It's tension. Yes. Right. Creating pec and lat tension OH.

Nick Papastamatis  1:03:58  
A lot of people try and squat and deadlift with internal and external torque. So with the squat, for example, the pull component of the of the squat is the down phase. Yeah. And the push component of the squat is the up phase. So you got to externally torque on the way down and internally torque on, but people misinterpret that as knees out and knees in.

No it is not knees out. Knees in. It's just, it's just a bit of, like, just sort of tension.

Scott Wilson  1:04:22  
Yeah. So nothing is meant to move. Yeah. So wrist preparation from gymnastic bodies that basically like I got back from Japan, and opened up my gym SAW athletic, and I could snatch with like minimal to no wrist pain. So I just wrapped it up, but continued to do my wrist prep work. So it was massively like it was night and day difference. I remember in Japan, I went and lift at Wasada University. And I remember snatching for the first time after about a week of doing the wrist prep work and it was a night and day difference. And then during that time, I'd been watching Julien stuff, watching all his videos trying to get as much information out of them as I can without doing the workshop in the seminar and got back and immediately implement the bicep shoulder opener every day for about six weeks. I did by simply short opener before I'd snatch clean and jerk or any session just to pattern the movement engage the pecs, lats, and it was about eight weeks later, I was at my first comp down in ACT. Because New South Wales weightlifting Association would let me lift here...wankers.

And yeah, I shouldn't have said that.

Nick Papastamatis  1:05:35  
no comment.

Scott Wilson  1:05:38  
So yeah, I went, I went to ACT and I was snatching and this is my first come back from since 2015. When I won nationals. And halfway through the comp, I realized my shoulder wasn't sore. And I was like, What the fuck? Yeah, like, I've gone from bad wrist pain, really bad shoulder pain to nothing? In a very short window of time. Yeah, this was, I think 12 weeks.

Nick Papastamatis  1:06:03  
It was this is the Scott because, like, throughout this process I'm hearing you've had to learn a lot about your Yeah, about myself out yourself and like, like the body and like,

Jac Simmonds  1:06:14  
you have to have done this with very little guidance.

Nick Papastamatis  1:06:16  
Yeah, I'll just go correct. And, and the part that I'm that I've learned from you over this time is you need like, in order to help someone get through pain, you need to have like a multifaceted approach, which sometimes does not involve you. Like, I can't, I can't possibly know everything. Yeah. And nor can Julien know. Yeah.

Scott Wilson  1:06:42  
Although he is one gifted Oh, it's very, very I, I I look up to him. I'm, I'm raging that I've not been able to do the strong fit seminar. Yeah, I've paid for some of the online stuff.

Jac Simmonds  1:06:53  
Yeah,

Scott Wilson  1:06:54  
I've paid for some of the stuff online. And I'm don't want to do the workshop until I meet him in person, because I feel like I need to go and meet the guy. Because 2017 I was in Japan and 2018. I was at the Commonwealth Games when he was here. So both times, it was just unfortunate timing that I didn't get to go and spend time with him

Nick Papastamatis  1:07:12  
the thing that the thing that you know, that like i'm not i'm just not 100% sure how much how evidence based his approaches is.

Scott Wilson  1:07:19  
He's working on that.

Nick Papastamatis  1:07:21  
Yeah, a lot of it's quite hypothetical. A little bit speculative, and potentially philosophical. Yeah. Which is cool. So long as you take it with a grain of salt, right? Everything like everything. So yeah, definitely from Scott, I've learned that you can't, you can't fix everyone. Sure. For everything, of course. And this is where like you the right thing. We were saying this the other day, Scott, the right thing will work quickly. Yeah.

Jac Simmonds  1:07:50  
I think that's what you found.

Scott Wilson  1:07:51  
My shoulder, my knee like I've had, I've had the right and the left knee gapping and clicking in my knee. Well, let's go all the way back to 2015 when I first met Nick wouldn't tell him the story. 2015 I've had arthroscope in 2012. And all throughout that time of doing CrossFit 2013/14 I had like chronic knee pain, like never got better. I had needling massage. I'd seen a couple of other physios charge a lot of money with it. And and with no little to no progress whatsoever. And I saw Nick and within six weeks my knee was never sore again. I've never had any problem with my right knee ever since.

Jac Simmonds  1:08:35  
What do you do?

Nick Papastamatis  1:08:37  
Well, what I did then, actually literally was a lot of manual therapy.

Scott Wilson  1:08:42  
And but you also found the root cause of the issue rather than just

Jac Simmonds  1:08:47  
Well, in your perspective. Then Scotty What did what did Nick do? Okay,

Scott Wilson  1:08:50  
so that's probably better. I had Nick had needled my quad and stuff that like down like the vastus lateralis, because it's pulling to the right side. my itb was tying my TfL and my glutes and all this sort of shit. But then he also sent me to get an ultrasound on my patellar tendon, because he was like, Oh, your patella turns a bit ropey and I'd had the arthroscope on that same knee. So I got the I got the athletes, I got the ultrasound and during the ultrasound guys like oh, that's pretty thick. Like that's, that's some pretty knotty patellar tendonitis. She got there on the medial aspect.

Nick Papastamatis  1:09:25  
yeah, and then problem was lateral The pain was lateral. But the medial patellar tendon was very thickened.

Scott Wilson  1:09:31  
and, and yet after that, we call it I call it Galio which is really nice for guasha or graston technique. Yeah, yeah, we just, we just scraped the fucking shit out and throw a few needles in there as well, just for good measure. And what do you notice? Honestly, within six weeks, I tell you like it was it was like, I had no more knee pain. And to me that was like, wow,

Jac Simmonds  1:09:55  
rehab like just what just

Scott Wilson  1:09:57  
essentially eccentrics and isometric standard tendon.

Nick Papastamatis  1:09:58  
The thing right, is when we look at this in retrospect, because every three or four years, there's almost like a natural evolution of how we think as long as it's extremely quick in how quickly we change, right? So Back then, I was still my mindset was still very mechanical, yet still very, very mechanical right? Now, that was me opening up the inside mechanically so that it takes pressure off the inside mechanically. And then, however, there's actually like a far more intricate process that might actually be going on. You. Firstly, weren't 100% sure on what the fuck was wrong with your knee? Yeah. Right. That's number one. Number two is your you then got an ultrasound and gain clarity on that. Number three, we then had had a structured approach towards how we're going to apply it we basically had a plan to to, and you believed in that plan? Yep. And so did I. So there's actually a study done, where they've got a group, they've got a group of people that are giving out antibiotics, medication, I can't remember exactly. medication and a control. And then you've got a control group that's giving out the same dosage. But actually, that's a placebo. Yeah. However, the doctor and the patient in in both actually believe what's going yeah, like they believe that it will work. Yeah. And there's no difference between the two groups. Yeah. Now that either tells you that the antibiotics don't work, or the fact that they believe you believe it works. It will. Now. Absolutely. If you believe it works, it will, there are certain that there are actual things that we did to make an impact to the knee. Whether that's through the rehab, or not. But I think with you at that time, there was something that we didn't know about. And that was the actual process that we were going through from a psychological point of view. That also helped but probably allowed it to work. Yeah, how true that is, I don't know, in hindsight, it's like, yeah, that definitely had a role. How much? I don't know.

Jac Simmonds  1:12:13  
Yeah, probably column a column B, right. Yeah. Mechanical changes, tendon loading treatment. Yep. And you've got a, you know, being able to find Nick, who's someone who you get along with someone who can give you some real. He can give you a plan. Yeah, exactly. Like it's someone who's built trust and rapport with you like that, in itself, might be just as powerful as the mechanical stuff. We don't know.

Scott Wilson  1:12:34  
Definitely. Yeah, the other people who I've seen I definitely did not have a relationship with it. I enjoyed being around them, right. Actually, they pissed me off sometimes.

Nick Papastamatis  1:12:43  
Okay, so yeah,

Scott Wilson  1:12:44  
but that worked. But on the other hand, there were people who had very good relationships with Yes, who hadn't been able to make a lasting change. And because of my knee, I'd actually end up getting just to paint the picture for what we're about to go into after the commonwealth games. I end up getting called orthotics to try and fix my knee problem, which rather than fixing my knee actually fucked my left hip completely. And to this day, I still have left hip issues which plagued me till after the Commonwealth Games but I have also now fixed them myself. Yes, yeah I fix that myself. So another time.

Nick Papastamatis  1:13:21  
This is where like, this is when this is all through real movement. Yeah, like, knees over toes guy.

Scott Wilson  1:13:26  
Yeah. Really the hip stuffs been FRC in functional education? Yeah. So to

Nick Papastamatis  1:13:31  
look at all these things, right like in order to for you to be at the level that you are you got to do the things that other people just wont do.

Jac Simmonds  1:13:39  
There's been some like you mentioned the wrist program Yeah, the shoulder program

Scott Wilson  1:13:42  
to gymnastics bodies wrist had some preparation work. Yeah, then you got the strong fit by simply shot opener. Yeah, I even I've made videos and posters out in the CrossFit community in Australia and got like crickets and I'm like you guys all have fucking shoulder Why the fuck are you not doing something about it? And I every time so yesterday was Wednesday my guys weightlifting breakthrough fitness on Wednesdays. We did bicep. Yeah, we did tricep oblique shoulder and we do it every week. You you incorporate it where learn all what works for you works for me. And if it doesn't work for athletes, well then yeah, get rid of it.

Jac Simmonds  1:14:16  
Yes. I love the Ben Patrick stuff. Yeah, I know.

Nick Papastamatis  1:14:21  
What other stuff did you do? Do you say?

Scott Wilson  1:14:22  
Well, FRC for my hip functionalisation.

Nick Papastamatis  1:14:25  
I'm just making a note of all this, Yes, because I'm sure that 

Scott Wilson  1:14:28  
Then I've been definitely heavily involved with athletic truce group or ATG at Ben Patrick. And Keegan Smith from real movement project a real movement. I don't think it's project real movement. it was real movement project at one point, I think,

Nick Papastamatis  1:14:44  
and literally like and that's just one but you've also worked with a with a gamut of other codes. Yeah, well, and I'm sure you've learned things from people like everybody. Oh, geez. CrossFit, like Carl Paoly. Yeah.

Scott Wilson  1:14:56  
I literally mean, we're talking about the other day, I did a gymnastics workshop at breakthrough fitness two weeks ago, every almost every single one of my gymnastics progressions for kipping was was Karl and we're talking about how like CrossFit San Francisco shutting down was such a sad thing, because to me, because it's San Francisco was like a pillar of the community. It was. It was not Kelly, it was Kelly. Keller, he stretched him. So I went when I was going to the grid League, Las Vegas thing, I went to San Francisco first and actually went to meet Kelly, Carl wasn't there. So down through. Yeah, there was just there were just these, there were these people who were like the thought leaders in the CrossFit community. And to see like that kind of shutting down was a sad day, the other week,

Nick Papastamatis  1:15:42  
and this is and this is the like, the the lesson that I want to impart here for people that are listening, if you're if you've got athletic, athletic endeavors, or you're treating athletes and whatnot, if you're at if you're an athlete, and you are not doing your own research, and you are putting just complete trust in just one person, you've already like you're letting yourself down. Like, how, like the way that Scotty has been able to work through a lot of a lot of his injuries that I've been a part of, like, I've been a part of every single one of these from 2015. And it's like, but I haven't solved them all. And, and nor am I gonna take credit for solving everything completely. Yeah, you know, like, it's like, you know,

Scott Wilson  1:16:22  
I know that you've definitely played a massive part in Sure,

Nick Papastamatis  1:16:25  
like, but at the same time, like the wrist, like there's other the shoulder like, I would have got some of these 80% there, some of them 10%, they're the knee, I might have been 50% of it.

Scott Wilson  1:16:37  
I'd say the knee was or you. I was bad with my rehab on that I didn't do much of the rehab. I just I remember the treatment being getting the treatment and squatting like the next couple of days later and having no knee pain.

Nick Papastamatis  1:16:50  
So I'll take that one. But in turn, but then even then,

Scott Wilson  1:16:53  
but that's not a lie. That was to me, that was what built our relationship, the trust in you. It was I you were able to resolve a problem that I'd had for ongoing for years and had surgery on which I'd went seen someone who put my trust in them and eventually got under the knife because they told me to Yeah, it didn't fix the problem.

Nick Papastamatis  1:17:08  
Yeah. So if I hadn't, if I hadn't done what I need to do with the knee, either you would have found someone that someone else or you would have. Yeah, who knows? Like, who knows how important that was for that. So the point is, is that is that there are and it's not about accrediting or attribute eating progress, percentage wise or whatever. It's more like, no, no. As an athlete, you need multiple sources of information all the time. This goes with your nutrition. This goes with your psychology, this goes with your physical capabilities, your injuries, your your like, everything needs to be consulted. Yeah, if you want to be an athlete, and I don't see I don't see this the difference between you. And then if and then and then people that just simply don't make it or they just die trying. Yeah. And so I've made a list here so we'll we'll put that up. But I've got a question for you. What have your injuries taught you about yourself?

Scott Wilson  1:18:09  
No matter how dark the situation may seem, there is light in the tunnel. Okay, so don't give up. Don't give up hope. Like, just because you feel broken and irreparable and damaged that does not define you. You can fucking like the butterfly come out of the cocoon and rise and be beautiful and strong again. I've had my son tell you my thing. My thing is my five P's. You got to have potential. You can have the right people. You got to have passion. You got to have perseverance and you gotta have a process so that's there my five things for success. far out. the purse the perseverance thing is

Nick Papastamatis  1:18:55  
you better copyright that

Scott Wilson  1:19:06  
But yeah, like you doesn't the perseverance to go through those those testing times there's troubled times and and still know that they're like, you are going to be a healthier, happier version of yourself afterwards. Like, I've I honestly didn't think I would be at the Commonwealth Games when I had my shoulder injury. Yeah. But then I got there.

Jac Simmonds  1:19:29  
Yeah. Do you think though so that point where you know, you say how like the butterfly and the kicker or the endpoint. Do you think that's I don't think that's injury free though? Is it? 

Scott Wilson  1:19:39  
No I still I still have the scars. I still have the self the stars and like I wouldn't have learned...

Jac Simmonds  1:19:45  
This is important to know, because I think there's this unrealistic expectation that there's this like Holy Grail.

Nick Papastamatis  1:19:51  
I think I don't think I've ever helped you go into a comp and completely scratch free No way.

Scott Wilson  1:19:57  
Let's get to that. Let's get to 2017 Commonwealth Games. So I, I lay I leave my high paying job. Yeah, I open up my gym and fuck that was challenging. Yeah. Like I was shitting my pants the whole fucking time and and to get to the end quickly guys I did shut my business down in 2019 before COVID three months before COVID yeah thank you I am I am Nostradamus I am the fortune teller.

Nick Papastamatis  1:20:23  
everything happens for a reason

Scott Wilson  1:20:24  
Yeah. And that me part of me open the gym was from from unit you were you were a strong like in motivation there and you pushed me to do it and you're like, you're ready for it, go and do it. It wasn't the right decision. Looking back, but it taught me a lot about myself. But yeah, I opened up my own gym. I went from being paid well to earning fuck nothing zero. But I was happier than ever. And I was enjoying training, I was injury free, and I was getting better every week. Like my my minimums, the least or the slowest way I was hitting on a weekly basis was getting higher and higher and higher. I was doing things that I'd never done before. And I went into the Commonwealth championships, which is the qualifying event for the call of games in September 2018. So 2017 like I felt like I was a fucking juggernaut. I could run through brick walls, I was strong, as powerful as fit as healthy as happy. And then I didn't do the performance I wanted to and that advocate advocate at the con of championships, and that took a big like, knock on my mental health incapacity. I was a bit like fuck, like, don't feel as good about myself. And like, I had a back injury. And then I pissed my knee off. That was one of the gapping kind of started and I actually thought about this the other day. You know, when my gapping started when I wear knee sleeves, when I won't easily I can remember specifically, you know, when we had the discussion like in the back. I just remembered now my gapping started when I was trying to front squat, but I was wearing knee sleeves. But when I wasn't he wraps it didn't get to that's just a thing just for Nick.

Nick Papastamatis  1:22:04  
I'll let that percolate.

Scott Wilson  1:22:05  
Yeah. But yeah, basically, we we went to going to college championships, I snatch 143 kilos, which is a PR snatch opener. Clean jerk 170 was my worst competition to date ever. I made two lifts. Yeah, three lifts out of six. But I did enough to get on the team. Yeah, I was on the team. And going into the Commonwealth Games, I was very unmotivated. I was very I was I should say I, when I got the call, I got the email said I'd made the games, I was actually probably depressed. I had went from the highest of the highs to like, not feeling very good about myself. And really like going to the Commonwealth Games. The couple of months before the games, I really remembered that why I was doing what I was doing. This was me to prove to myself that I am capable wherever the fuck I put my mind to. And not to depend on anyone else to make me successful or not. So I really like pull myself up by the bootstraps sort of thing, gave myself a kick up the ass and ended up doing well at the games. But if you looked at my preparation, compared that to the Commonwealth championships, I was a shell of my former self. I was not who I was the year before, as that person as a person and as an athlete. Why? Just because I just didn't have the belief. But then that when my mom when my brother flew out from Scotland from the comp to come watch me computer come up games, I was not going to disappoint him. And I know they were proud of me because I've been I qualified. And that was like that was that was that was almost like the mountain itself. Like I got to the top of the mountain which was qualification. And then shit, there's actually another peak that I need to hit. There was a false peak. So yeah, but about two months away from the games. That was when like, I really like kicked myself into overdrive and started really like mentally preparing myself. But that whole point from September 2017 until me was about as competing April. Yeah. So March... February, February. Like that whole period was like very a very dark spot.

Nick Papastamatis  1:24:17  
You were coachless at this point.

Scott Wilson  1:24:18  
Yeah, I was coached plus, just six months out. Yeah, less than that.

Nick Papastamatis  1:24:22  
Yeah. Just you had been running your gym now for

Scott Wilson  1:24:25  
close to a year. Closer. Yes. We

Jac Simmonds  1:24:27  
had some real life stress to it.

Scott Wilson  1:24:29  
Yeah. Just there was just a lot of things on my plate.

Nick Papastamatis  1:24:32  
Yeah. So I think this is interesting, right?

Scott Wilson  1:24:36  
You will work you are unhappy where you're working before at my last job.

Nick Papastamatis  1:24:39  
Correct. And did that affect your performance? Oh, definitely. But it bleeds bled into all areas of my life. Other question for you. Would you have qualified for the Commonwealth Games, if you did not have the opportunity to train, at your gym, in the environment that you could control?

Scott Wilson  1:25:00  
I'm not sure, probably not, probably not. But I I think back in I might I probably even though going to even though opening my own business, maybe cost me certain aspects of like that opportunity, it actually made the opportunity itself if I had not done it, I don't think I would have went to the games. 

Nick Papastamatis  1:25:16  
There's nothing that happens that doesn't have some sort of pro and con. Yeah. And it's like, you know, I like all I've said to you before, that I don't like I know, when you closed your gym, I was like, that's not a failure. No, I was like, that's, that's like a, there have been so many successes along the way. And you've even told me yourself that you're a you're a better employee. Yeah. Because of that.

Jac Simmonds  1:25:41  
One of the first chats I had with you, you told me that, like, you see yourself as more a technician.

Nick Papastamatis  1:25:46  
And it's like, the year of of the first year of business, and then it just allows you to have this this positive environment when the before was. Yeah, yeah. not favorable. Sure. But then all the problems crept in didn't Yeah.

Scott Wilson  1:26:03  
Yeah. Well, you realize after the first year of business, when you earn no money, you're like, Fuck, this needs to turn around. Otherwise, we're not gonna, we're not gonna make it. Like my wife is. I love my wife to death. Like, I'm such a fortunate person that she was there to financially, emotionally, psychologically, support me through opening a business supporting me financially to side food on the table. Yeah. helped me get to comic games marrying me. I got married in October of 2017. So after the comma championships, and yeah, I didn't really I really enjoyed my my wedding. I thoroughly enjoyed all right, that was a good time. Yeah. But I didn't really Oh, yes, she wonderful to see. Yes, she definitely. Yeah, I'm very lucky man. Just put it that way. If it wasn't, I don't think I would have achieved fucking one. Half of what I've done.

Jac Simmonds  1:27:00  
Yeah. Yeah, it sounds like there's a lot of people that have got around you, but especially your wife.

Nick Papastamatis  1:27:04  
Yeah. What's super interesting, right? And what am I know, made a little note because she says something before us. At the very beginning of the podcast, you said, I didn't have the chance for the coaches. I'd know the coaches did not went there to make me do what I was capable of. Yeah. And then you said something, just before where you wanted to prove to yourself that you could do it and not necessarily be dependent on someone? Yeah. Are those two thought processes related?

Scott Wilson  1:27:38  
I believe so. So I had the five PS I had the potential. Yeah. I had the passion for rugby. I loved rugby at one point. Yeah, I had the perseverance I had injuries during rugby. Yeah, I just didn't have the processes didn't have the people. The people in the process of the two things that connect all the other three things were my things. They are me. Yes. Passion. Potential passion and perseverance. They're me then they are controllable by the other two, a word dependent on other people now having gone having done the risk preparation work having done the bicycle rickshaw opener, haven't created my what I call the grease the groove system for weightlifting. Yeah, I now have the process. And I am the right person for getting to the kind of games because I've been there. Yes. So I am now the perfect coach for anyone who wants to go to the Commonwealth Games. Yes. Because I have been there and I have got the T shirt. I I know. I know what it takes. Yeah, I have the process and cuz I get because I'm the person I can. What's the word I'm looking for? Because I've been there and I've got the experience I know the I know the things to do the right things to talk to yet not legitimize me but it's more like my first weightlifting coach. He taught me before I'd even got to the Commonwealth Games. He told me what he knew he made me feel what it was going to feel like when I was on my first competition. Like if you've never used a mentor you've walked the path if you've never been if you've if you've never been on the platform you There's nothing you can gain that experience for you. So but having a coach with the right experience and knowing what actually feels like can kind of replicate that for you before you get there. So you're almost the prediction is like you already know what what it's going to feel like

Jac Simmonds  1:29:30  
gotcha

Scott Wilson  1:29:30  
Yeah. So that's the person that's the people that the coach the perseverance like you can't teach perseverance. you got grit or you don't. there was Angela Duckworth grit like I love that that books really good I love that book if you haven't read it, but basically like if you do not have the ability to take the knocks and and fucking fight those uphill battles you you're not gonna, you're not gonna...

Jac Simmonds  1:29:52  
That's massive mate. I love those five P's. It is beautiful, that gives good insight into like, why people just don't succeed in whatever area it is, but it's Especially athletic like, oh man athletic pursuits.

Nick Papastamatis  1:30:02  
However, there was something you said that without your wife. Yeah, so it's not in the coach because you've been coaches for a while.

Scott Wilson  1:30:09  
I've I can I consider myself a self kosher? Yeah, I've had mentors that I've had people who have helped me along the way, but I still consider 99% of my training has been done by myself. 100% anyone that watching me, however,

Nick Papastamatis  1:30:22  
you have had people around you that it's not like you, it's not like you can do you think it's possible for an athlete to do 100% on their own?

Scott Wilson  1:30:31  
So I when I first moved to Sydney, I called it my network of success. Well, Christine, I think it was networks. Some of this I remember going back and reading it a while ago, but you were one of them. My wife was one of them. My family my brother, like, my brother was a talented athlete as well, but he never had someone to look up to and aspire to. So my brother is like, me going to the Commonwealth Games like Commons championships. I think it's my second snatch. I listened to Kanye West Big Brother. Yeah, and that song just like awesome fucking just like that. That got me in the fucking zone because I snatch 143 and I was going out for 147 and then I did the same thing for my one I missed my 175 killer cleaning job my second clean jokes I'd like a 10 minute window between my first clean jerk and my second one which is a long weight in weightlifting and then going after the second one I put big brother on again and I missed it but like my that song and thinking of my brother got me way further. snatching at the com games? com games ones 140 Yeah, and clean and jerks PR which is 171 Yeah. Which like to me was like that was the fact that I did that to me was just like, Yeah, I was like that that would that was a backflip that was that was and I...What was your result at the com games? finished seventh. So I went ranked 9th. Yeah. And I finished seventh. I think I was the only Scottish weightlifter to improve there position. Yeah. So and

Nick Papastamatis  1:31:54  
it's just Yeah, it's a it's like, caliber of athletes, man.

Scott Wilson  1:31:59  
Yeah, that did right. That was it was nuts.

Nick Papastamatis  1:32:01  
Yes. Yeah.

Jac Simmonds  1:32:05  
Very different. You and I, yeah, no, that's awesome. So what why don't we dive into like a little bit of gym ownership now? So you owned SAW athletic Yo, for how long? Three years?

Scott Wilson  1:32:17  
just under three years. Really quick? Yeah.

Jac Simmonds  1:32:19  
If you had any lessons or if you had to, if someone is thinking about getting into gym ownership, what would you tell them?

Scott Wilson  1:32:27  
Don't do it.

Nick Papastamatis  1:32:29  
So I think I think especially when it comes to like gym ownership, and you said you meant you made mention that it was the wrong decision. 

Scott Wilson  1:32:35  
It was the wrong decision, you, you people, so I got into gym ownership because I wanted to help people. I wanted to Yeah, I wanted to have control. But you can help people and have control if you find the right business owner or the right entrepreneur, you can build a relationship as an employee I've since started working at a gym called breakthrough fitness in merrylands and George the owner there, it's a great boss and I have gone to him and I've showed him that I have the capabilities to run a crossfit functional fitness program and I can shape it and I can shape the program and I can change things and influence the culture. If I had found a George and I had these opportunities I'm saying other gyms like lift performance and I ran the weights and club initially heights barbell club, I was the weights and coach but those roles they restricted my growth because I was a weightlifting coach. I was not a functional fitness coach. A functional fitness coach can do whatever the fuck they want to buy a weightlifting coach has to weightlifting and that's what I didn't like. So I went and opened up sore because I wanted to do what I thought was the best thing for people's health and fitness. I have experienced strength conditioning, CrossFit weightlifting, gymnastics style training, strongman style training, I wanted to use rugby, I wanted to use all the tools in my toolbox. But I was a hammer, I A weightlifting coach at these gyms and they didn't allow me the growth that I needed. And I felt restricted in my duties because I was stepping on other people's toes because I was trying to coach people through CrossFit workouts. Not that I wanted to be a CrossFit coach. I didn't want to coach across the classes. I just wanted to help certain people who wanted to cross it. I just wanted to be a coach. And I was restricted in that. So I went open up saw, and I realized that and we mentioned before, like the technician. There's a book called The myth. You've got technicians, you're entrepreneurs, you got managers technicians are coaches, chiropractors, CrossFit coaches, weightlifting coaches, anything anyone who's good at chef is a technician. Then they see an opportunity or they think they can go and do it better for themselves and they take on the entrepreneurial and the managerial hats. But what ends up happening is it actually detracts from your ability to be the best technician or the best chef coach wherever the fuck you want to be. So that's what happened to me. I became my fire and passion for coaching got diagnosed, because I had to become an entrepreneur and a manager Luckily for me, my wife did most of the managerial stuff, she did most of the backend stuff. But having to go out and find business and drum up business is not what I enjoy. I don't mind go out and meet people. But putting up Facebook ads and cold calling people is not enjoyable,

Jac Simmonds  1:35:16  
You like being on the floor,

Scott Wilson  1:35:17  
I like being on the floor and working with people who want to be there, 

Jac Simmonds  1:35:20  
which I do as an employee I can do as an employee and probably earn more money

Scott Wilson  1:35:23  
and definitely earn a lot more money. Yeah,

Nick Papastamatis  1:35:26  
yeah. So what did it I suppose, how does it make you a better person now?

Scott Wilson  1:35:32  
having owned a business, I can empathize with business owners, because I know what they're going through, I can see the I've seen what happens when you put your life savings into a business. And everything depends on this business being successful. I am very, very, very, very lucky, because I had a financially supportive wife. And we were in a good financial position, my wife's a financial advisor. So any decision we make is well calculated. And I also have supportive parents. So I shut down soar with nothing. But I was, yeah, I came out with zero from saw, but the experience and the knowledge that I've gained has been invaluable. As I said, I'm a much better employee, I understand what George is going through. And I can understand that the actions that I take, whilst conducting my classes has not just an impact on me, but also him. And if I make the wrong decisions, or I speak to someone in the wrong way, or if I say something, and that person leaves, yes, it won't impact me immediately, because he's not gonna cut my hours straight away. But it's going to impact me in the long term. So I can I see the long term effects of my actions.

Nick Papastamatis  1:36:46  
Is that something that you feel like? Yeah, so that that's something that can you contrast Scott Wilson before SAW? 

Scott Wilson  1:36:53  
yeah. I just used to say anything can do whatever I want to do. I did not give any consideration for but then for when you look at your history, you grew up in the army. Yeah.

Nick Papastamatis  1:37:04  
Like your first five years of brain development was structured in such a way which was not really exposed to too much outside of that. Yeah.

Scott Wilson  1:37:15  
I

Nick Papastamatis  1:37:16  
with an authoritarian, huh? And it's like,

Scott Wilson  1:37:20  
of course, that's how I am. That's how you Oh,

Jac Simmonds  1:37:22  
yeah, is that so obviously another part of your story is like you're also a new father. Yeah. With fatherhood and with your upbringing, how have things shaped how you're now raising your son?

Scott Wilson  1:37:35  
Well, I go back to my five P's. I am the person who is responsible for developing and growing my son. And I, I was never forced to do sports kid. So I'm not going to force Oliver to sports the kid, but I'm going to give him every opportunity that I can based off of what I know. So early on, while he was an infant and immobile, I tried to do neck strength unit size within I tried to get into touches toes, I tried to get him hold his feet. I try to move his body in a way that he increased his work capacity and his his capabilities, so that he will have opportunities later on. 

Nick Papastamatis  1:38:19  
that can that can be interpreted as you as you've passively forced it. Yeah. But can you give us an example of like an exercise that you would give him for neck strengthening,

Scott Wilson  1:38:27  
so I would literally hold him, hold his hold him lying on my arm with his head, like rested on my hand. And then I would take my hand, like slowly take my hand away and try and get into, like, support his neck up that thing? just passively. isometrics.

Nick Papastamatis  1:38:45  
And what I see happen when I'm not a father, right, but what I see happen a lot is people they like with tummy time. Yeah. An example. You hear you hear the baby crying and that they've had enough.

Yeah. That's just struggling, thats just fatigue, and they don't know how to deal with it.

Scott Wilson  1:39:03  
And a concept that I well, their only way of changing the world around them is by crying, they cry, they get fed, they cry, they get their ass wiped, they cry, whatever, they get cuddled. So that is their way of changing. When I cry get told to shut up. Yeah, that's it. So one of the things I realized one of the things I learned

Nick Papastamatis  1:39:23  
now I don't get my ass wiped... that would be weird. It would probably make me cry more.

Scott Wilson  1:39:39  
like a principle not principle but something that like when I'm coaching people. If you can't do a push up on the floor that's doing an incline. You can't do a ring row with your body parallel to the floor that's in this this change the angle so it's easier. So rather than forcing all of it to do tummy time, I choose to lie down and put his shoulders and his chest on my My chest and it's filled the floor so is at an angle. And now he's got a lot more leverage and strength to hold himself.

Nick Papastamatis  1:40:05  
It's like you've regressed it. 

Scott Wilson  1:40:06  
I've regressed it. I regressed tummy time. And you know what a tactic he never cried. He never cried during that he loved it. He loved it. I've got I remember, the first video wasn't too hard. It wasn't too hard. It wasn't, it wasn't a Super Challenge. But then I still gave him actual tummy time. Yes, I would also hold him as progressive overload. Basically, I would hold him with his chest on the couch, and I would support his head, and I would lift his head up, and then I would try to take my hand away again to just do the negative.

Jac Simmonds  1:40:31  
So just doing was just setting him up.

Scott Wilson  1:40:34  
set him up for success. Yeah, just trying to give him the opportunities that my parents, my mom does that you're cruel. I'm like, No, no, he's not crying, he's not upset. He's enjoying it. And I totally,

Nick Papastamatis  1:40:43  
and I've seen videos of you with Oliver and like, and he's laughing,

Scott Wilson  1:40:47  
he's laughing. He loves it used to love it.

Jac Simmonds  1:40:49  
And I guess when they're when they're that age in their first year, that's the only thing they understand. Yeah, physical world and what's happening around them as well. And that's one way you can influence

Scott Wilson  1:40:55  
Yeah. And then like, going back to, like, my parents ever forced me to do anything, so I'm not gonna force him to do anything that he doesn't want to do? Sure. We've put him into swimming lessons that six, seven and a half months, we'll put swim lessons, he's almost finished his first term, he is ahead of schedule, put it that way your coaches like, well, he's smashing his hands on his by zone, he's kicking his legs a little bit. He's doing things that kids in the class who are two years old can do. But he's been exposed to it from an earlier age. So I'm giving him opportunities. That being said, like I've spoke about my father a little bit, my dad was not a not not a unloving father, but didn't shower me with praise and the affection that I would like, I'm trying to do that. So I've read books like unconditional parenting, and try to make myself as aware of my own shit and my own fallacies and my own lenses and perspectives so that I don't push that onto him as much as much as I would. Yeah, as much as I want to. I want him to grow up. And I want to give him good perspectives. But I also don't want him to take on my burdens and my shit. Because I know my dad didn't have a good relationship with his parents. And I'm sure that manifests his way of...

Nick Papastamatis  1:42:10  
Trying to cut through the pattern.

Scott Wilson  1:42:12  
Yeah, try to break the cycle. And who knows, maybe I'll ruin him. Maybe it will become a self righteous little shit.

Nick Papastamatis  1:42:19  
When did you realize like, was there a moment where you looked at yourself? And you were like, I need to change myself?

Scott Wilson  1:42:27  
Yeah. Post Commonwealth Games, I returned to my gym. And I was still like, Julian's got this concept of philleo genic, hierarchy, flow, fight flight freeze, weightlifting, very lactate base training, high stimulus from the fight flight response. So you're in the sympathetic, I used to finish coaching, training, and then go straight into coaching. And that's coaching social, and it should be in a flow state, not a fight flight state. That's true. So how would I how I'm already an authoritative or very, like direct person, I'm going to be even more so. Yes. So post Commonwealth Games, despite having the relief and the stress relief of not know that haven't competed games, I came back and I blew up that a long term member who'd been me for multiple years, she left I didn't care. Well, but I had another lady who had had the same sort of interaction with who's a big island. The girl tell me that I made her feel like she was this big, tiny. And she the fact that she came up and said that to my face, rather than going to my wife and saying, it's got to dick, can you tell him to stop being a dick, she actually came up to me and had that really stuck on his conversation me. Like I remember almost like crying in front of her like what I did partially like tears. I remember not bawling my eyes out. So that was like, I was aware that I needed to change. But her having that conversation with me made me like just it. It made it real tangible. I could feel I can even now I can feel the way that I felt in that moment. From there, I went and worked with a professional coach and did had some experiences that I can't mention. Okay. for legal reasons. Yeah. had some experiences that made me a more empathetic person. 

Nick Papastamatis  1:44:08  
Some altering experiences. Yes, some altered experiences, away from our current perceived reality. So yeah, I hope that wasn't confusing.

Scott Wilson  1:44:18  
What I'd call a non ordinary state of conscious Okay, that's nice.

Nick Papastamatis  1:44:22  
Yeah, yeah. Yeah,

Scott Wilson  1:44:24  
I'm not ordinary. I wouldn't extraordinary

Jac Simmonds  1:44:26  
if you haven't figured it out by now. Yeah.

Scott Wilson  1:44:28  
Beyond ordinary. So I did that. And I did that. I did that in a very supportive environment. And that doesn't that doesn't just change who you are alone. It did make a big impact on how I perceived myself and how I perceived that people around me. But it's still ongoing. I still have to be mindful. Like, I've had I've had a there's a theme every gym I go to I ruffle a lot of feathers because I'm, again, very authoritative and very like this is the way you have to do it this way. That was not a Mandalorian Hello, you could have it that way too. But yeah, so every gym I go to, I've run into the same problems, I butt heads with people. But when people really get to know me, they realize that I care more than all the other coaches because, like, I genuinely do, I fucking I care more than they do a lot of times about their own success from them achieving the things that they say they want to do. Where I fall into problems is like, again, I get on that anxious, anxious sort of side of things where I'm like, No, I'm not in a flow state anymore, I get overwhelmed, because there's a lot of people around me and it's loud, and people are dropping barbells and almost killing themselves. And as a CrossFit coach, that can be quite stressful. And I'm a pretty like, high strung person as it is. So my, what I've done is I've learned to slow down, breathe, take a few breaths and go, right, this person is trying their best, they're obviously not trying to piss me off, they're not trying to hurt themselves, or anyone around them, and see them for who they are. I look at my son, and he's a ball of light. And I try to think of Nick as that ball of light, you are someone's son, you are someone's child, and you were a child at one point, and you are just trying your best you're trying to navigate this world as best you can. So cut you some slack. I don't know what you're going through in everyday life. And that's hard to do on a daily basis. I have to remind myself constantly of this every day when I get to the gym before I go to the gym, if I'm not running late, which is not that often, but sometimes traffic and all that sort of stuff. I take a few seconds, I just sit there. And I just in my mind, like just just chill. Yeah, I used to have a mantra, but I don't really like metrics. I'm not it's doesn't didn't really listen, they're just like sitting there and just taking that moment to go. Right. You're gonna go and try and help people. Yeah, you are not your most productive self. If you're shouting at them. Yeah, you are not helping them help them. You're not helping them get better if you're shouting at them.

Jac Simmonds  1:46:53  
I know. I can definitely resonate with that. Like, and I know probably Nick as well, like, just having an IQ and I've had this conversation but like being able to control your intensity when it's needed. Yeah. Because hot. Yeah. 100 percentage is like, same with me, like my default mode is is pretty intense sometimes and and you just have to pick your moments and pick your times because it can be very counterproductive. And it sounds like you've learned to control that in yourself. It's it's still ongoing. And that's a great. That's a great lesson to teach us on one day.

Scott Wilson  1:47:21  
Yeah. Well, that's, that's my hope. Like, my dad flies off the wall. Like, you have to walk on eggshells around my dad. And I don't want people to perceive me in that way, either. 

Nick Papastamatis  1:47:30  
So the it's, it's what I'm absolutely an awe of is the fact that you are you are born talented and gifted in sport. Yeah. And although, like, you've had some misfortune along the way, and you've had some and with that misfortune, I mean, you know, you've been let down in certain ways. Not only were you a lot of it, I believe, seems to like at the very beginning of your life, like you were basically like, structured and regimented and disciplined from the beginning. And not only that, you because you had such a variety and ever changing environment around you. The environment affects you. Yeah. And so and the environment affects everyone. But some people will be more sensitive to it than others. So what I can see is you've you've had this very structured start, and then like, like you said, You've lived in you lived in five German cities. Yeah, five different places by the by the age of 13. And so, really, like, who knows how your growth and development would have changed, depending on the city? Yeah. to then go to Scotland and then compete. And then like, you know, you get set in a particular environment, but then get let down by something that kept you safe. Which was your coach? Yeah. And you trusted that person. And it's like, this is a this is an emotional roller coaster. Yeah. And so you have to default to what keeps things strict and controlled and that authoritarian attitudes? Yeah, you have to, because then how are you going to manage the uncertainty? And how are you going to manage? What's what you can't control? What are the things that around you? You have to do that by asserting control? Not only that, probably part of that was, you probably want to be the coach you wish you had. Yeah. And so, but then that interpretation to other people, because they haven't had your experience is miscontrued. 

Scott Wilson  1:49:45  
This guy is a dick.

Nick Papastamatis  1:49:47  
So this we're talking about from zero to 25 for 28. Well, with the 27 with a big moment know that where your member came up to you yeah, was however long that is, you've had 20 odd years of conditioning. Yeah. That's like that's like learning how to, you know, hit a tennis ball for 27 years in one particular way. Yeah, of course, you're gonna revert back to your default. So all I can do is applaud you, bro.

Jac Simmonds  1:50:19  
Thank you for sure. Well, Scotty it's been a pleasure, man. It's a thank you. I think it's been awesome to like Nico said, just go from the start and figure out where you came from. And what's made you into the great athlete and the great coach you are today. So yeah, thank you for your time.

Scott Wilson  1:50:34  
 I appreciate it.

Nick Papastamatis  1:50:35  
Before you go, is there anything that you want to say to to anyone who's planning on entering weightlifting?

Scott Wilson  1:50:46  
Find, find the right person, like I'm available. If you want to talk to me, I'm happy to tell them the path that I've gone down. But again, if you don't have the passion and the perseverance...and

Nick Papastamatis  1:50:57  
the five P's,

Scott Wilson  1:50:59  
the five P's like you can go to weightlifting and compete....Yeah. My sixth p is, potatoes, potatoes, and potatoes. But yeah, if you're if you're looking to get into weightlifting, ask yourself, why are you doing it? Like if you're just doing it for a physical pursuit? I think it's great sport, it's very safe. If you do it properly, it's very safe. If it's done poorly, it's going to be detrimental to your health. I know lots of people who are ruined because they've not trained Well, sure. And they've not they've not gone about it in a very smart way like me included my body is is I do hold the battle scars, I still have a bad hip, a bad knee and a bad shoulder. But I'm I they don't define me. I'm still capable of doing things. And they will I will still do things in the future. So yeah, if you want to if you want to get into whitelisting. Find find the right path, find a person who's in your area, that person, the people, the coach who can help make that path as smooth as possible.

Nick Papastamatis  1:52:04  
I definitely believe that if that if anyone does reach out on the back of this, or if anyone like you, for you, it would be it's more than just I'm going to coach you weightlifting and you're going to learn the technique. Yes, I actually, they'd be looking for a mentor.

Scott Wilson  1:52:17  
Yeah, I'm not a I am not a weightlifting coach. I consider myself I just a coach. Like, I don't, I don't fuck, I got a girl at the gym that I work at. She's got crippling anxiety. But over the last two months of us working together, we've been able to back that off and she's slowly reducing her medication. Yeah. And she's just she's happier than she's been in a very long time. And and that's that's, that's the power of training. And it's a pair of like the mindset and most having, having someone directing you before that everyone around who was enabling her to go further and further into that. Yeah, that that path of anxiety and eventually depression.

Jac Simmonds  1:53:03  
So basically, it sounds like anyone who's wanting to improve just overall and yeah, all that.

Scott Wilson  1:53:08  
you have to work as an expert on omnipresence. You've got to be you got to do everything. You can't just do one thing. Sure. Definitely.

Nick Papastamatis  1:53:17  
So it's been a pleasure.

Scott Wilson  1:53:18  
Thank you guys.

Jac Simmonds  1:53:19  
Thank you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai